To Annoy Liberals
Peter Robinson ·
November 23, 2011 at 8:37pm
Just posted on the Facebook page of Congressman Paul Ryan. (As if we needed another reason to love the guy.)
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Comments:
Dec '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
HVTs
It does seem to be far more challenging to have to use bows & arrows.
Try it just once with a gun and report back on how "challenging" it is.
Despite what most city people seem to believe, one does not simply amble out into the woods at daylight with a rifle and have the deer wander in front of you an hour later for you to blast at your leisure.
Critters are smart, and wiley, and can see and hear and smell a damned sight better than you or I could ever dream of.
The last damned thing we need in this world are MORE RULES, especially about something which is already heavily regulated.
If it vexs you so greatly, how about you fuzzy wuzzy city folks who don't find rifle hunting to be "fair" go back to watching a little league soccer match (where they don't keep score), and leave us out here in the sticks to our primitive and barbaric past times?
That'd be awesome.
I remember a time when the city folk were happy just to look down their noses at us dismissively as they drove/flew by.
God help us all, now they're interested in what's happening out here.
Edited on November 24, 2011 at 6:14amAug '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
I'll accept his claim that the deer is deceased, and headed for his freezer in pieces, but the effect of the photograph is somewhat tarnished by the look of contentment on the animal's face, as though it's lying there enjoying a nice neck massage.
Oct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Somewhere, a certain Bay Area libertarian is weeping.
Oct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
CoolHand
If it vexs you so greatly, how about you fuzzy wuzzy city folks who don't find rifle hunting to be "fair" go back to watching a little league soccer match (where they don't keep score), and leave us out here in the sticks to our primitive and barbaric past times?
That'd be awesome.
I remember a time when the city folk were happy just to look down their noses at us dismissively as they drove/flew by.
God help us all, now they're interested in what's happening out here.
I presume their cities must now be virtual utopias if they're taking such an interest in the affairs of flyover country. After all, they certainly wouldn't want to be complete hypocrites, now would they?
Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying some murdered turkey tomorrow. Mmmm, mmmm, mmmm!
Aug '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Mama Toad
desire for some Paul Ryan home-made venison bratwurst is entirely gastronomic.
Mama. I... love... bratwurst... too.
And Mr Ryan's is indeed fascinating. He smokes it. Never had it smoked before.
Dec '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Mama. I... love... bratwurst... too.
And Mr Ryan's is indeed fascinating. He smokes it. Never had it smoked before. · Nov 23 at 9:57pm
Through sheer force of will, I am going to forgo this excellent opportunity to make a lewd joke, and instead simply note that I wish I knew more women of your stripe.
Oh the recipes I could share . . .
Edited on November 24, 2011 at 7:12amJul '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
It's quite an honor to be shot by the man who's going to save America.
May '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
I sense a Ron White fan in our midst - am I right, Dave?
May '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
CoolHand
Try it just once with a gun and report back on how "challenging" it is.
Despite what most city people seem to believe, one does not simply amble out into the woods at daylight with a rifle and have the deer wander in front of you an hour later for you to blast at your leisure.
Critters are smart, and wiley, and can see and hear and smell a damned sight better than you or I could ever dream of.
Let's not sugarcoat it for them, Cool Hand. You've neglected to mention the ritual of sprinkling yourself with deer urine to counter a deer's keen sense of smell. My friends, I have it on reliable authority that you have not truly lived until you've watched grown men fight over Wal-Mart's last jar of deer pi..., er, urine.
May '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
I wish he'd stop by our neighborhood and pick them off as they trample across lawns. There are indeed way too many in the population at the present time, wandering around through residential areas.
Deer are not in short supply.
Oct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
CoolHand
Despite what most city people seem to believe ...
The last damned thing we need in this world are MORE RULES ...
If it vexs you so greatly, how about you fuzzy wuzzy city folks who don't find rifle hunting to be "fair" ...
I remember a time when the city folk were happy just to look down their noses at us dismissively as they drove/flew by.
God help us all, now they're interested in what's happening out here. ·
Goodness me ... a tad touchy, huh? It’s clouding your reading glasses. Who mentioned “rules”? It was a comparative question with nothing whatsoever to do with how challenged I might be with a rifle. You do not conclude that, all other things being equal, the one with a bow & arrow has a bigger challenge killing a deer than the guy with a scoped rifle? OK, I'll take your word for it ... don't think I'll be doing field research any time soon, so have no fear there. I'll leave you to your pleasures; trust me, I'm not all that interested in what you do in the woods or how it turns out for Bambi.
Jul '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
"All bucks stop Here."
Aug '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
It's America, go hunting on Thanksgiving. Celebrate the freedom to. From the duckblind near Squaw Creek ( at sundown we stop shooting ).
Happy Thanksgiving from flyover country.
May '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
HVTs
Goodness me ... a tad touchy, huh? It’s clouding your reading glasses. Who mentioned “rules”? It was a comparative question with nothing whatsoever to do with how challenged I might be with a rifle. You do not conclude that, all other things being equal, the one with a bow & arrow has a bigger challenge killing a deer than the guy with a scoped rifle? OK, I'll take your word for it ... don't think I'll be doing field research any time soon, so have no fear there. I'll leave you to your pleasures; trust me, I'm not all that interested in what you do in the woods or how it turns out for Bambi. · Nov 24 at 6:36am
Well, you confessed ignorance and the subject, yet proceeded to declare that hunting with a rifle was unsporting. You didn't do much to indicate you're any different from the kind of busybody Coolhand was objecting to. I'll take your word for it that it's just a misunderstanding.
Oct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Mark Wilson
HVTs
Goodness me ... a tad touchy, huh? It’s clouding your reading glasses. Who mentioned “rules”? It was a comparative question with nothing whatsoever to do with how challenged I might be with a rifle. You do not conclude that, all other things being equal, the one with a bow & arrow has a bigger challenge killing a deer than the guy with a scoped rifle? OK, I'll take your word for it ... don't think I'll be doing field research any time soon, so have no fear there. I'll leave you to your pleasures; trust me, I'm not all that interested in what you do in the woods or how it turns out for Bambi. · Nov 24 at 6:36am
Well, you confessed ignorance and the subject, yet proceeded to declare that hunting with a rifle was unsporting. You didn't do much to indicate you're any different from the kind of busybody Coolhand was objecting to. I'll take your word for it that it's just a misunderstanding.
No ‘declaration’ was made. A question was raised … it wasn’t answered.
May '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
HVTs
No ‘declaration’ was made. A question was raised … it wasn’t answered.
Your exact words were,
We can disagree on whether that amounts to raising a question or stating an opinion. I hope you can appreciate why both Coolhand and I took it as the latter.
I think we've each made clear where we stand on the issue so I'm ready to chalk it up to a misunderstanding.
Edited on November 26, 2011 at 5:20amDec '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
To be honest, I'm just about worn slick with being condescended to, having my morals, my intelligence, and my sense of fair play questioned, and then having to pretend like it was just some big misunderstanding on my part.
You city people can't even stand behind your own crap-ups when you make them.
You thought you'd lecture us yokels about the immorality of killing poor defenseless critters with our big scary rifles, and somebody called you on it.
At least be man enough to take the ass chewing you deserve.
Not that I expected you would. City folks are nothing if not predictable.
Suck it up tinkerbell.
And to answer your unasked question. When hunting from a stand in medium density woods, it's not a lot different with a bow or with a rifle. You just need better shoulder muscles with the bow.
When the woods are thinner, you'd need to be patient enough for the critter to get within ~40 yards or so for the bow, whereas you could take one at 100+ yards with the rifle.
In anything approaching normal density woods, the range will be about the same.
If you are on the ground stalking, it's another thing entirely.
Also, something most people don't think about is that rifle or bow, the critter dies from exsanguination (bleeding out).
With a good rifle shot, that takes from two to maybe five seconds. Enough for that critter to run about thirty to fifty yards. I've also dropped them in the tracks before. If you get lucky and have a bullet splinter go through the spine (or you're good enough to take that shot on purpose).
With a good bow shot, that takes from 20 seconds up to maybe a minute or more, depending on exactly what the broadhead cuts on the way through. The critter could run for a couple hundred yards, or two or three miles. I've helped guys track bow shot deer from one side of our land clear out the other. I've also known guys that tracked for two days and never found the thing.
I'm not sure if I'd call that more "sporting" or not. It can certainly be a lot more work.
Now, sure, you can make a bad shot with a rifle and have one get away so that you never find it too, but it happens a lot less.
Something to think about next time you're fixin' to lecture somebody.
Edited on November 26, 2011 at 11:18amOct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Mark Wilson
Your exact words were,
I think we've each made clear where we stand ... so I'm ready to chalk it up to a misunderstanding.
Yes, a misunderstanding. Fair enough. Intentionally or not, however, your selective quotation removes my words from their context. The two preceding words you left off are “Interesting question,” which referred to a previous post. To have something cross one’s mind in the context of discussing a question is simply a way of saying it’s worth considering that viewpoint. It’s not a way of making an affirmative judgment about that viewpoint. Hence, in my view I merely contributed to a legitimate question raised elsewhere. Perhaps that will help explain why the level of vitriol that has resulted seems out of proportion. On the other hand, crude attempts to delegitimize the questioner (and hence the question) with extraneous ad hominem attacks are hardly something ‘new’ in politics. I’m more familiar with it coming from the Left than the Right. Live and learn, as they say.
Oct '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Alas, the irony … complaining of being condescended to while dripping with condescension and ad hominem bile.
But let’s ignore all that. Thanks for an interesting explanation of hunting’s challenges. To get within 40 yards of a creature so exquisitely attuned to its environment surely requires exceptional levels of patience and self-control. It’s no picnic at 100 yards, I’m sure, but 40 is just amazing. And they get close, you’ve got a get a shot off, which means long periods of contortion.
Question: the sweet spot for dropping deer fast? The same for arrow and bullet? I assume a head shot is effective, but tough at any distance (and are arrows deflected by skull?). I’d think a front-on torso shot would cut arteries, slice lungs. But that’s some positioning that doesn’t come along automatically, to say the least. So perhaps next in priority is 30-45 degree angle from a rear aspect, entering just behind a shoulder … again, heading toward arteries and lungs. I assume a belly hit (or further back) just wounds and leads to those long searches.
Dec '10
Re: To Annoy Liberals
Wonderful how you skip right across the first part of the post that said in normal wooded terrain the shot distance is pretty much the same for a bow or a rifle, because you just can't see any farther. But no matter, I'll continue to explain.
A heart/lung shot is really all you have with a bow, because a broadhead can only effectively cut soft tissue, and cut tissue is the only way to make the critter bleed. There is no impact trauma from an arrow strike because it is going too slow to create shock waves in the tissue.
Some broadheads have chisel points that will penetrate bone, but just barely, and they expend a great deal of their terminal energy doing it.
Arteries and veins have a certain moment of inertia to them (IE they resist changing direction like all other things that have mass), but because they are small, their inertia is also small, so they change direction very easily.
What that means, is that in order for the blades of a broadhead to CUT the artery instead of just push it out of the way, the arrow must be traveling at the highest velocity that the bow can muster.
Punching a hole through a shoulder blade or rib beforehand is going to do nothing except slow the arrow down, possible blunt the edges of the razors, and make it more likely that the blood vessels you need to rupture will be pushed aside instead of cut through cleanly.
A head shot is totally out of the question with a bow. If you made a good hit, the animal would go down, but if your shot is not perfect, not only will you not kill the animal, but you will very likely blind it or otherwise maim the critter in a non-life threatening manner.
With a rifle, you can take several different shots. The heart/lung shot is still the first choice, because it's the biggest target. You could also choose a head shot (though again, it's a very tough shot, however, unlike an arrow shot, a strike anywhere in the skull will do the job because of the shock effect), or a shot to sever the spine just above the front shoulders. I never cared for that shot though, because it tears up some of the super tasty and tender loin meat along the back.
Because the bullet carries with it the shock effect of high velocity impact (the shock waves stretch, crush, and tear tissue several inches away from the actual path of the bullet, greatly increasing the size of the wound channel), it makes little difference where exactly in the chest cavity you hit the critter, because the shock effect more or less liquifies all the vitals inside there as the bullet passes through. This is why they bleed out so fast, because the damage is so extreme.
Most rifle bullets will punch through a rib or the shoulder blade or even the shoulder joint itself with little negative effect on the shot. In fact, most big bones splinter and turn into shrapnel when struck, which only increases the damage.
I try to avoid that though, because the shoulder joint lives inside some damned tasty meat, which you don't want to tear up if you can help it, but it shows that even a poorly placed shot will do the job.
Gut shots are to be avoided regardless of whether you're shooting a bow or a rifle, because as you say, they take so long to kill that the critter almost always gets away.
The big thing with hunting is knowing when to NOT take the shot. If you don't have a good line on the target area you want, you have to hold off until you do, even if that means the critter walks away unscathed.
This is the last thing that most hunters learn to do really well. After all that work it is hard to let one walk away, but sometimes that's your best play.
Edited on November 27, 2011 at 2:09am