Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Adam Freedman ·
Jun 11, 2010 at 7:23am
First, thank heavens she's safe.
Second, speaking as a sad, old white man, isn't her adventure an extreme example of today's kids-run-the-school mentality? No doubt her parents believe that they were demonstrating their love by indulging Abby's 16-year old ambition of sailing around the world. But here's another way to demonstrate love: act like a grown-up and tell her that she'll have to wait.
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Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Agreed, Adam -- to a degree. But I suppose the question is, what degree? What, you wait for a year? Two years? Because 18 crosses some legal line? How does one know? Or perhaps it is a matter of principle: the first time your kid asks, you say no, not until I say so. And then when you can tell that fate is closing in, you say yes?
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
If anyone's wondering what this is about, here's a link.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Whether this was, indeed, her dream voyage, or the parents' or brother's dream--there was a decision to prevail against common sense.
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
James, I realize that sometime saying "no" is futile, but I don't think this is even a close case. If you say "no you can't go to the party," there's always the risk that the teen will sneak out and go anyway. But a 16-year-old can't just sneak off and sail around the world, it's a big undertaking. When my daughter reaches 16 and asks permission to sail around the world (which I'm sure she will, fate being what it is), my answer will be: not until either (1) I say so, or (2) you're over 18 and have earned enough money to outfit your own ocean-going craft, at which point, I suppose I would be powerless to stop her.
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
I agree with Adam. The parents should have told her to wait. Likewise with that 13-year-old Everest climber.
These two points, made by researchers in the ever-growing field of adolescent brain science, should give any parent a lot to think about:
and ...
Edited on Jun 11, 2010 at 9:03amRe: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Adam, Urusla, yes -- in a typical case, I agree: parents should err on the side of drawing lines. Thirteen years old, by any metric, is significantly younger than even 16. But Abby Sunderland isn't a typical case. Her brother circumnavigated the globe at 17. Their dad is a shipbuilder. My point isn't the lame relativist one ("Who are you to say what's best for them"?). It's about reasonableness, responsibility, and family independence. If instead of a sailing emergency this was a hunting accident involving a seasoned young marksman in a family of prodigysharpshooters, how many misguided folks would come out furiously against the parents? A lot, I think -- and I think they'd be in the wrong, too.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Aside from the parenting issues, who picks up the tab for her rescue?
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
James, comment on this again in about 15 years. Hopefully after (getting married first) and having kids. Sometimes- horrible as it may seem, parents need to say "no" almost just to "say no" and establish that there is such a thing as denial of deeply desired things in the real world because they are not good for us.
And I can assure you- a point with which I expect Ursula (and other parents here) would probably agree- that it is extremely difficult to do. Because being a parent generally means that you fall hopelessly love with that offspring from day 1 and want to say "yes" to everything possible.
To go all maudlin, ethereal, and religious on you, I am convinced that humans can't really understand the concept of God relating to and loving His people, no matter how bad we are, until we experience parenthood for ourselves.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
I was wondering about the legal issues involved. What if she got hurt while in a foreign country. Don't medical providers need parental consent to treat? Also, in the U.S. she can't legally consent to plenty of things. Should she undertake such a feat if she can't even legally enter into a basic contract?
RE: Hunters, they need a license from the state. (Just ask John Kerry. He knows where to get him one.) What are the requirements for a minor to sail the world on her own? Any? Should there be a minimum age, and who's to say what it should be?
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Funny thing is, Duane, I jumped in this thread headfirst because...I'm a new dad. I watch my son start to toddle around the house and I think about these things. I'm not a shipbuilder. My son will not, I am guessing, become a sailing prodigy. If he wants to circumnavigate the globe the day he gets his driver's license, I am going to tell him no. (Not even to wait. Just no.) But he'll wind up being pretty good at something. Something he loves, I hope, and something maybe even that I love, too. And if he wants to do that, in some remarkable way -- and if I've trained and prepared him to do it with competence and judgment -- well, I'm not going to tell him no. I might tell him to wait. I might insist on certain restrictions or conditions. But I'm not going to shut him down.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
I think it really depends on the child. At 16, I probably shouldn't have been driving a Honda. But some kids have it more together than others. She might be very mature. We send kids off to war at 18. I think the average age on an aircraft carrier is 20. The US government trusts them with a nuclear-powered floating city worth billions. And they land planes and manage weapon systems on those suckers. Most sailors aboard don't have more than a diploma. I've become much less critical of other people's parenting styles, after becoming a parent. I don't think I could let my child to do something like that, but a trip to the local pool with my kids stresses me out.
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
The Aussies?
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
James Poulos
Funny thing is, Duane, I jumped in this thread headfirst because...I'm a new dad. I watch my son start to toddle around the house and I think about these things. I'm not a shipbuilder. My son will not, I am guessing, become a sailing prodigy. If he wants to circumnavigate the globe the day he gets his driver's license, I am going to tell him no. (Not even to wait. Just no.) But he'll wind up being pretty good at something. · Jun 11 at 10:04am
Hey, sorry for the condescending comment, and congratulations. I can't wait to hear what you say in 10 years when he wants to hitchhike to Chicago with three friends.
But manage expectations- your adorable little boy could turn out like me and (while still adorable) never be "pretty good at something".....
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Father of five (and timid but semi-competent inshore sailor by age 13 or thereabouts) here, jumping into the thread to back James up.
The Sunderlands share a demanding vocation that is a tremendous source of personal, intellectual, familial, and -- in their case -- professional satisfaction. To describe supporting their daughter's trip as "indulging" her, as if they'd allowed a TV in her bedroom, is unfair.
Parenthood indeed presents opportunities for "denial of deeply desired things in the real world because they are not good for us." But independence, resourcefulness, deep competence, adventure: these things are good for us, and good for our children. Unlike, say, our culture of perpetual adolescence, within which Abby Sunderland seems all the more admirable.
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
James Poulos
Funny thing is, Duane, I jumped in this thread headfirst because...I'm a new dad.
Congratulations, James!
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Karen Carruth Luttrell: I think the average age on an aircraft carrier is 20. The US government trusts them with a nuclear-powered floating city worth billions...they land planes and manage weapon systems on those suckers. Most sailors aboard don't have more than a diploma. · Jun 11 at 10:49am
Karen, the average age is probably 20, but they're not making decisions on their own and they’re not in charge of anything. Enlisted people don't land aircraft. Officer pilots and officers on the LSO Stand land the aircraft. Officers fire the catapults…a safety officer oversees the enlisted running the launch sequence, but the decision to launch is made by an officer. The nuclear power plant is run by engineering officers supervising very senior enlisted with a lot of training. Weapons systems are for the most part automated. Enlisted guys may sit at the control terminals, but they tend to be mid-level enlisted with a lot of training and, again, they don't make decisions. Some of the air traffic controllers are enlisted guys, but they, too, have a lot of training and aren’t 20. Enlisted personnel have very important tasks, but non-commissioned and commissioned officers are the ones making the big decisions and are ultimately responsible.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
My parents let me start exploring the world when I was 15, much of which was by myself. I had been to almost 20 countries by the time I was 25 and most of them I saw as a teenager. Iceland, Finland, Scandinavia, mainland Europe, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, Japan, Mexico, Canada. The problem with a teenager, as Ursula pointed out, is that they don’t have a fully developed brain and the wisdom and true maturity that only come from years of experiencing life. I was extremely mature at a young age with a strong sense of right and wrong and the courage to protect myself. Even so, I encountered some very frightening situations and I count myself extremely fortunate I emerged unhurt, although not unharmed. The day my children want to see the world I will go with them. Teenagers are not adults.
I disagree with the decision to let Abby take this journey by herself at 16. First of all, there are pirates in the Indian Ocean. Secondly, it’s the middle of winter there with violent weather conditions, so what happened to her was entirely predictable. Her parents allowed their daughter to risk her life for a stunt.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
The end result is a tremendous amount of resources wasted trying to rescue her at an enormous price tag. They should give her parents the bill.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
I have 3 little boys. Part of my dilemma is where and when do I let them practice independence and where and when do I crack down and be that over-protective parent I want to be?
An example: when my 3rd grader wanted to start walking home from school (about 1 mile away), I had a panic attack. But then, after breathing into a paper bag for a while, I saw the benefit of allowing him to walk home. Granted, he's not entirely alone since he's surrounded by a posse of boys his age.
Here's what's so ironic: I grew up in Central America. When I was only 8 years old, my parents let me go swimming at our local lake. Alone. In the company of a bunch of other 7-8 year olds. I was allowed to go wandering all over town by myself. Granted, it was a smallish town. However, if my kids would ask me to do the same for them, I'd immediately say NO! (yes, that was yelling)
And like, Andrea, I was doing a lot of things by myself that most children my age would never do.
May '10
Re: Thoughts on the Teen Sailor
Felicia, I think that was a generational thing with our parents, because everyone I know about our age had freedom to ride their bikes wherever they wanted and they just had to show up at some point before bedtime. I was run over by a dump truck when I was five. As was normal then, I was a block away from home with a bunch of neighborhood kids running wild and not a single adult around. Never would I let my five year old be that far away from me and I don't think any of my friends would, either. I hope I continue to know the right answer for my children as each request for freedom is made.