Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Every once in a while those liberals let out their true colors, which are decidedly NOT the rainbow shades of tolerance and diversity but the rigid black-and-whites of conformity.
Be prepared:
1. It begins as an opinion piece about Rick Santorum from the New York Times.
2. It quickly veers to the subject of homeschooling.
3. It trots out every ill-informed prejudice known to man.
4. It's by everyone's favorite education scholar and political scientist Dick Cavett.
5. It's dripping with bile and sarcasm yet naturally gets a hearty 'huzzah' from the Times's comment corps.
Teaching is an art and a profession requiring years of training. Where did the idea come from that anybody can do it? How many parents can intuit how to do it? (Pardon unconscious rhyme there.) My parents were teachers and the thought of home-schooling sent them rolling before they were in their graves. Especially when parents, complaining of their kids’ schooling, wrote in report card responses things like “I am loathe to critacize…”; “my childs consantration”; “normalicy”; “my daughter’s abillaties”; “her examatian grades”; “she should of done better”; “greater supervizion,” etc., into the night.
To deny kids the adventure and socialization of going to school, thereby missing out on the activities, gossip, projects, dances, teams, friendships and social skills developed — to deny kids this is shortsighted and cruel. I think of the mournful home-school kid watching his friends board the school bus, laughing, gossiping and enjoying all that vital socialization we call schooldays.
I guess only certain alternative lifestyles meet the approval of the liberal intelligentsia.
Photo from http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com.
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Nov '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
What a shame it is to deny children the salubrious effects of a public education.
Jun '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Paraphrasing Rush Limbaugh: Public school kids might come out of school with greater self-esteem, certain that America owes them a living, but home-school kids actually know how to spell "self-esteem."
Sep '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Cavett: "Teaching is an art and a profession requiring years of training."
I'm a teacher. It's hard work, and it's not for everyone, certainly; but it doesn't require "years of training". In grad school, two weeks before my first teaching assignment, the university gave me the calculus textbook I would teach from, a syllabus and that was it. That first time was a little rough, but my students survived it and in later semesters I was even given an award. So much for "years of training". I learned on the job--just like every other good teacher.
Sep '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
In fact, the phrase "years of training" encapsulates so much that is wrong with teachers today. Show me a good teacher, and I'll show you someone who has had a good education: a person who has learned about, and struggled with, some of the great ideas and traditions, and wants to pass them on.
Dec '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Ursula Hennessey:
I wonder who taught those parents spelling, grammar and usage. Could it have been their public school teachers?
My father was a public school teacher - high school biology. He retired from teaching at Oakland High School when he said he was more afraid of the students than they were of him.
Dec '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
I suppose all children wait until kindergarten before someone with years of training under his belt can teach them to tie their shoes.
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
My first thought was "Is Dick Cavett still alive?" Evidently so. And apparently off his meds.My second thought was of my favorite bumper sticker "My homeschooled soldier is defending freedom for your government-schooled honor student."!
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
As indescribably bad as the above fiasco is, I think your inference, however implicit, is invalid. You're trying to malign "public education" by appealing to one incident. Formalized, your argument would look as follows:
-Horrifying incident X occurred in a public school
-Therefore, public schools are bad
This is no good, not if an honest discussion on public education is your aim.
Edited on February 25, 2012 at 11:14pmNov '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Duplicate post.
Edited on February 25, 2012 at 11:08pmNov '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Michael Labeit
As indescribably bad as the above fiasco is, I think your inference, however implicit, is invalid. You're trying to malign "public education" by appealing to one incident. Formalized, you argument would look as follows:
-Horrifying incident X occurred in a public school
-Therefore, public schools are bad
This is no good, not if an honest discussion on public education is your aim. · 1 minute ago
I wasn't trying to have an honest discussion about public education.
I was using anecdotal evidence, just as Cavett does, to malign something. Some people home-school their kids. Some people send their kids to private school. Some people send their kids to public schools. I don't have a problem with any of that. I went to public schools. I like to think that I turned out alright.
Sep '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
This stuff always gets my blood boiling. Especially when it comes from a sanctimonious gas bag like Cavett.
Yes, we should leave it all to the professionals. The professionals who'd rather recommend a kid for a dosage of meds instead of teaching them some civility. The professionals who have no competition other than home schooling for parents of modest means.
The reason home schooling is taking a beating now is not only because Santorum is for it, but because it is growing and is shown to be effective. If more people home schooled, then there would be even less need for public schools, public school teachers, jobs with three months off in the summer, bloated pensions, mismanaged school budgets and uneducated dependent people who vote Democrat.
In Dick Cavett's world obviously, the ideas of the founding fathers (who were home schooled at some point in their lives) are just cockamamy ideas like those espoused by Gingrich, Santorum and Romney.
Conservatives should not have second thoughts about home schooling. Hopefully in another generation, public schooling will either be wholly fixed or on the trash heap of history. Competition is key and that's what home schooling is: competition.
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Stuart Creque
I wonder who taught those parents spelling, grammar and usage. Could it have been theirpublic school teachers? · 1 hour ago
Aw, fiddlesticks, you beat me to the punch line.
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Mothership_Greg
Michael Labeit
As indescribably bad as the above fiasco is, I think your inference, however implicit, is invalid. You're trying to malign "public education" by appealing to one incident. Formalized, you argument would look as follows:
-Horrifying incident X occurred in a public school
-Therefore, public schools are bad
This is no good, not if an honest discussion on public education is your aim. · 1 minute ago
I wasn't trying to have an honest discussion about public education.
I was using anecdotal evidence, just as Cavett does, to malign something. Some people home-school their kids. Some people send their kids to private school. Some people send their kids to public schools. I don't have a problem with any of that. I went to public schools. I like to think that I turned out alright. · 6 minutes ago
I don't think your evidence supports your conclusion. If you had identified a trend in child abuse in public school, then your conclusion would have some veracity. But otherwise, this is an isolated incident and should not be used to malign public education.
Apr '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Cavett would have a point were public schools still as they were when he went to school, but they are not. I have three children in the California public school system, two now in junior high school, one in grammar school, and the only reason that they are there is that we can't afford private school for them. The education they receive in school ranges from mediocre to outright terrible. As it is, we make do with outside tutoring, having to actually try to undo through tutoring the effects of the horrible math curriculum the district uses. (Even the better teachers admit to teaching around it-while glancing around them to make sure no administrator is listening.) The flyers we get from both the school and the district usually have some obvious spelling and grammatical errors, and my kids recount to me often that many of their teachers do not (or cannot), speak correct standard English. I'm actually kind of fond of Dick Cavett, but only someone not familiar with the public schools of today would write those things with a straight face.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:25amNov '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Michael Labeit
I don't think your evidence supports your conclusion. If you had identified atrend in child abuse in public school, then your conclusion would have some veracity. But otherwise, this is an isolated incident and should not be used to malign public education. ·
What is my conclusion? I thought my conclusion was "public education isn't necessarily nearly as awesome as Dick Cavett thinks it is, and people who home-school their children deserve better than mockery." Does everyone need to turn every comment they make on Ricochet into some formal logical syllogism to make you happy? If you think that someone making a one sentence statement, including a link to a story about the despicable behavior of one man, is some kind of valid argument for or against anything as complex as whether or not public education is worthwhile, then you've spent far too much time on the internet.
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Mothership_Greg
Michael Labeit
I don't think your evidence supports your conclusion. If you had identified atrend in child abuse in public school, then your conclusion would have some veracity. But otherwise, this is an isolated incident and should not be used to malign public education. ·
What is my conclusion? I thought my conclusion was "public education isn't necessarily nearly as awesome as Dick Cavett thinks it is, and people who home-school their children deserve better than mockery."
This conclusion is similarly lacking I think. Public education isn't nearly as awesome? Why? Because your child might be spoon-fed excretory fluids if he or she goes to public school?
Not every argument must be formal, but every argument should be valid, however informal its presentation is. Most arguments are made informally, thus identifying their invalidity is more difficult. Formalizing such arguments enables one to demonstrate why they are invalid, underhanded, inaccurate, etc. I don't ask for syllogisms. I will use them however if a particular argument, however informal or implicit, is erroneous. Truth is the objective here, yes?
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
dogsbody: Cavett: "Teaching is an art and a profession requiring years of training."
I'm a teacher. It's hard work, and it's not for everyone, certainly; but it doesn't require "years of training". In grad school, two weeks before my first teaching assignment, the university gave me the calculus textbook I would teach from, a syllabus and that was it. That first time was a little rough, but my students survived it and in later semesters I was even given an award. So much for "years of training". I learned on the job--just like every other good teacher. · 2 hours ago
I agree entirely. No one taught me to teach. I was taught; I imitated the teachers I admired; and I was a success right away. I do not think that I have gotten better with time.
I would argue that it is a knack, and it requires a certain temperament -- a taste for "ham" does one no harm. Some have it. Some don't. Some of those who don't can learn by imitation. Some cannot.
Nov '11
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Michael Labeit
This conclusion is similarly lacking I think. Public education isn't nearly as awesome? Why? Because your child might be spoon-fed excretory fluids if he or she goes to public school?
Not every argument must be formal, but every argument should be valid, however informal its presentation is. Most arguments are made informally, thus identifying their invalidity is more difficult. Formalizing such arguments enables one to demonstrate why they are invalid, underhanded, inaccurate, etc. I don't ask for syllogisms. I will use them however if a particular argument, however informal or implicit, is erroneous. Truth is the objective here, yes? · 2 minutes ago
Excuse me while I write a dissertation on why this analogy is inapt. Serious discussion merits a serious response. Dick Cavett's ramblings merit mockery.
May '10
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Mothership_Greg
Michael Labeit
This conclusion is similarly lacking I think. Public education isn't nearly as awesome? Why? Because your child might be spoon-fed excretory fluids if he or she goes to public school?
Not every argument must be formal, but every argument should be valid, however informal its presentation is. Most arguments are made informally, thus identifying their invalidity is more difficult. Formalizing such arguments enables one to demonstrate why they are invalid, underhanded, inaccurate, etc. I don't ask for syllogisms. I will use them however if a particular argument, however informal or implicit, is erroneous. Truth is the objective here, yes?
Excuse me while I write a dissertation on why this analogy is inapt.
Don't let your dissertation committee intimidate you.
Re: Those Open-minded Liberals Skewer a Lifestyle Choice. Again.
Maybe this article reads better in the original Russian.