They Really Think We're Stupid
Would you open the bargaining process of, say, buying a car by telling the salesman, “Look, ultimately this car means enough to me that I'll sign whatever deal you offer, ...but let's start with a low bid, okay?” If that's not a good fit, then try this one on for size: If your spouse is doing the bargaining and has told the salesman that you will not pay a penny over $15,000 for the new car, would it help or hinder her bargaining position for you to say, “Oh, Honey? I forgot to tell you, but I found another $5,000 under the couch yesterday.” May I hazard a guess that your spouse's bargaining position, along with your sleeping arrangements, would change dramatically?
And yet, that's what several Republicans have done to the Cut, Cap and Balance legislative initiative. I listened incredulously to an interview today in which Georgia Senator Saxby Chambliss maintained that, A) the Gang of Six plan was not intended as a debt ceiling compromise, and besides, B) he couldn't understand how releasing the plan on the very day that the House passed Cut, Cap and Balance would weaken the House bill in the least. Trying desperately to get 79,800 pounds up the hill, I kept repeating to myself, “They really think we're stupid!”
Why in the world would the President and the Senate Majority Leader, neither of whom has a plan on the table, take seriously the House proposal if the Speaker is simultaneously negotiating arrangements more to the White House's liking, and Republican senators are tripping over each other to offer watered down alternatives even as the House is voting? Their actions render the House vote little more than political theater, designed merely to placate those radical Constitutionalists. They knew it, and Obama knew it. They really do think we're stupid.
Seriously, can anyone tell me why anyone in the Republican congressional leadership deserves to retain their position in the next congress? Is there a reason why these people should not be “primaried” next time around?
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Aug '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Didn't we have similar negotiating stupidity when the Republicans were in the minority? The GOP hasn't had strong Congressional leadership for over a decade.
I think we should take a trope from the Presidential elections, and try to get a lot more business people into Congress. Donald Trump may not be Presidential material, but the Republican caucus badly needed someone with his deal-making skills in their strategy room.
Edited on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:21pmJul '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Dave Carter
Seriously, can anyone tell me why anyone in the Republican congressional leadership deserves to retain their position in the next congress? Is there a reason why these people should not be “primaried” next time around? ·
I generally agree with your analysis Dave.
My answer is: a single-payer system next cycle. Or the next cycle...or...
The way I see it, these folks have a first-and-goal on the nine-yard line. They're winning, but it's still the third quarter.
Make them earn it. Don't pull the mediocrities in favor of no-shows.
We can beat these guys. We have the momentum. Barry has had a mostly failed presidency.
We do need folks who will hold effete Republicans' feet to the fire.
However, we also need to recognize that pitching a fit is not going to kill Obamacare. And Obamacare needs to go. That's Barry's one domestic "success."
If we wreck that, we wreck him.
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Palaeologus
I generally agree with your analysis Dave.
My answer is: a single-payer system next cycle. Or the next cycle...or...
The way I see it, these folks have a first-and-goal on the nine-yard line. They're winning, but it's still the third quarter.
Make them earn it. Don't pull the mediocrities in favor of no-shows.
We can beat these guys. We have the momentum. Barry has had a mostly failed presidency.
We do need folks who will hold effete Republicans' feet to the fire.
However, we also need to recognize that pitching a fit is not going to kill Obamacare. And Obamacare needs to go. That's Barry's one domestic "success."
If we wreck that, we wreck him. · Jul 21 at 8:29pm
But that requires spine, yes? I've seen more spine in kittens than I'm seeing from some of the folks ostensibly on our side.
Oct '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Just why might one be suprised by these events ?
The think seems to be there are still a few White Knights on proud steeds to ride in at the last moment to save the day.... Sorry, not gonna happen in your dreams.
A freind of mine mentioned that it was time for a third party to emerge to have some effect on the current system. Not clear on how that may have a good result at this point. Should this all fall down around our ears, Perhaps it is time, Yes or No ?
Jul '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Dave Carter
But that requires spine, yes? I've seen more spine in kittens than I'm seeing from some of the folks ostensibly on our side. · Jul 21 at 8:45pm
Yeah. And it seems to be routinely missing.
That's why we need Mark Steyns and Dave Carters alongside Duane Oyens and Rob Longs... with folks like Peter tying up loose ends.
Look, lots of our political allies are weenies. But with a bigger majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, and no Presidential Veto, I can guarantee you that big chunks of these chumps will magically be emboldened, and/or terrified.
I know, I know, it didn't quite work that way during W's terms. But neither result will occur if Barry gets a wash in Congress and wins with 55% of the vote. He's the face of the progs in a way that neither Gore, nor Kerry, nor Bubba was. He is (and will be held) responsible for trying to micromanage the U.S. economy.
He'll be tough to beat, incompetent or not. His congress-critters will be cake if we don't implode, though.
May '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
I think this just reinforces the thesis of Angelo M. Codevilla. The ruling class cannot be trusted.
Jan '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
That's one of the corruptions of the Beltway. When politicians campaign, they promise to vote for X, Y, and Z. They promise to stand firm. The moment they enter the Beltway, they put X, Y, and Z up for sale, and all that matters after that is the price.
It's almost alcoholic. One of the signs of alcoholic behavior is that when they see a new person appear on the scene, alcoholics go out of their way to butter them up ... trying to make sure the new guy won't upset their apple cart, or threaten their behavior. In the same way, the Beltway tries to make sure that new members don't threaten the status quo. The perks become snares:
The media, the establishment, the lobbyists, and every other power player puts the pressure on representatives to play ball. This is how they do things. This is how they want to do things. It's their game and their rules.
It takes more than one spine to fight that. It takes a critical mass. We need one more election for that.
Jun '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Republicans will cave. Republicans will always cave. They are trying to get votes, just as the Demacomies are. The debt will continue to rise.
The only thing that will stop this ratchet process is a fall, which will come at some point because we, as a nation, are incapable of making hard choices.
We're doing our best to get ready for that fall.
Mar '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
I don't know but we may be in a new world and the TEA party is going to have R's and D's running scared. I have noticed a new term in politics that I don't recall ever being used before, primaried, as in: I don't care, if they vote to increase taxes I promise the will be primaried. I don't know if these are idle threats or real consequences but we will know in about 15 months. Times they are a changing.
Dec '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Concur.
The interest of the Republican old guard consists of preserving their sinecure and suppressing the incipient insurgency of new generation members, Tea Party inspired, willing to vote their conscious and live with the consequences to advance a greater cause.
Big government has its own momentum: terrorists attack? TSA formed, employees unionized, private air industry crippled, and government operates airlines.
Fossil fuels run the economy? Restrict domestic production, jack up CO2 regulations to choke supply and demand, and government rations gasoline. On to the next market to control and ration.
This never ends in harmony with the good guys eventually winning over the hearts and minds of the people, because big government incrementally stays ahead by extending its ownership of the people’s way of life—directly, in the Soviet Union, China, N. Korea, and Cuba, or indirectly with laws and regulations in the West. It only ends in cataclysmic collapse as a result of systemic failure.
America was once the Atlas that held the world upright. Now the world, including America, is resting on shells about to crack.
Edited on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:40pmFeb '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Dave Carter
Is there a reason why these people should not be “primaried” next time around? ·
Because there is a fear that this will endanger the project to take over the Senate. (I'm not saying this reason is good enough. I'm just replying to "Is there a reason...")
Jul '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
They won't all get primaried in 2012, and some may actually survive the challenge, but the tone on the Tea Party lists and sites make Dave sound tame. The parties of Washington think the Tea Party will run out of steam if they just run out the clock and make the usual excuses.
Dave: Easy there, big fellow, how's that blood pressure looking?
Mar '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
I think we should start a grass-roots movement to take back the country - we could call it the Tea Party. What's that? Already done?
I don't think Mr Murphy would approve, though - the Democrats would consider us violent racist terrorists, and the Republicans should continue to reach across the aisle to get the independent vote, so that they can spend a little bit less than the Democrats, and take a little bit longer to reach bankruptcy.
Edited on Jul 22, 2011 at 12:48amSep '10
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
If I had socialist leanings, thought government was the answer to most problems and resided in a fairly conservative state/district and wanted political power; I would be doing exactly what the GOP leadership is doing. If their conduct under Bush didn’t convince you they really want big government and to maintain their power at any cost, what will? I have no problem understanding the GOP leadership. It is people like you who can’t seem to understand they are being lied too I have difficulty with. The GOP leadership really wants limited government, they’re just poor negotiators – give me a break! I know you’re intelligent enough to figure it out, why can’t you bring yourself to do it? Why do you keep giving these Yahoos the benefit of a doubt simply because they have a “ R” after their name? Most conservative pundits who receive favors from these leaders push this line. I was not expecting you to do it also.
Jun '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
It would take a lot of guts for Boehner to say, "The 'gang' I support is the Gang of 234 who passed Cut, Cap & Balance," and then refuse to participate in more negotiations until his passed legislation is addressed. But Boehner would find lots of support out here in the country for that sort of tough stand.
Apparently today, Friday, the Senate will vote on CC&B. Everyone says it will fail. But, that doesn't mean the effort will be a failure if Boehner et al pause for a few days after Reid and his pals stop CC&B. Take a couple of days to push the message that Republicans in the House had a popular plan and the Democrats killed it. Let that be the story for a couple of cycles. If they just let the vote go today and then go right back to negotiating a "Grand Bargain" the public will never know what they actually passed. They have to make it the "must report" story for a couple of days.
Then see how that re-sets this game. Currently R's are negotiating with themselves. Nobody has heard Obama's plan.
Apr '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
I also heard the Chambliss interview on Hannity (I assume this is the one you're referring to Dave) while I was driving home through some country roads in PA. Let me tell you that I almost drove off the road a couple of times, some of his answers were so unbelievable.
When doing business deals, I always step back and try to figure out the other guys motive for his actions. Rarely are they totally irrational or stupid as they would seem when you 1st hear or see them. It's the same thing with Chambliss. His answers sound downright stupid until you start to imagine a narrative that he is compiling to fit his motives. At the end of the day, he wasn't talking to Hannity's audience, he was talking to fellow moderate R's (who don't like the Tea party), Dems who are willing to negotiate and the NYT and their ilk. I really feel that this is a power play by non-Tea partiers to try to stamp this movement out once and for, by isolating them and making them irrelevant and seemingly radical. It's the only expanattion that fits the actions.
Mar '11
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
A: No; and No!
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Liberal Jim - " I have no problem understanding the GOP leadership. It is people like you who can’t seem to understand they are being lied too I have difficulty with." Guilty as charged. It's always been a personal failing of mine to take dishonesty seriously. In the case of the GOP leadership it doesn't surprise, ...but it never fails to appall. Character flaw on my part no doubt.
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Liberal Jim - "Why do you keep giving these Yahoos the benefit of a doubt simply because they have a “ R” after their name? Most conservative pundits who receive favors from these leaders push this line. I was not expecting you to do it also." I didn't give anyone the benefit of anything. I called them out on their dishonesty, which evidently pains you,..something you now have in common with the people I called out. And what exactly are these favors I'm purported to receive? I think they got the wrong mailing address.
Re: They Really Think We're Stupid
Sisyphus
... Dave: Easy there, big fellow, how's that blood pressure looking? · Jul 22 at 12:39am
It wasn't bad at all when I checked it in Atlanta recently. Then again, it was checked while relaxing with family. Not to worry though. And old Cajun Doctor gave me something he called, "Milk of Gymnasium." He promised it would make me "quiet as concrete."