The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
bagodonuts ·
October 5, 2012 at 11:06pm
Now that we've had a couple of days of post-debate celebration, let's consider the upcoming vice-presidential debate, this coming Thursday in Danville, Kentucky.
Are conservatives going to be at the mercy of unrealistically high expectations for Ryan, and unrealistically low ones for Biden? My fear is that if Biden doesn't spend 90 minutes drooling and soiling his pants, the narrative will be that he "won" the debate.
Please, someone, tell me I'm wrong.
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Comments:
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I think you are right about this. The average voter knows even less about Ryan than they do about Romney. All they'll see is another nice, good looking man with a strong debate presence and a masterful command of facts clobbering Uncle Joe.
And c'mon, who in their right mind thinks Joe Biden is more likable than Paul Ryan?
Joseph Stanko: On a more serious note, it's only us plugged-in conservatives who have a high opinion of Ryan. The public at large didn't know who he was before Romney picked him, and since then the MSM and Obama ads have defined him as a heartless man who wants to eliminate the "safety net" and kill Medicare.
All Ryan has to do is show up without cloven hooves, horns, or fangs dripping with the blood of senior citizens and he wins the debate. · 2 hours ago
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I'll be curious to see how the moderator protects Del(un)aware Joe, as Ryan will pin him a few times early. I hope to see the same performance from Biden as we saw with Obama, where he hems and haws trying to remember the lines his handlers have been drilling into him over the last few days.
I'd like Ryan to show up and pull some chains out of his pocket, and declare Biden/Obama want to make y'all slaves to the government and more taxes, while Romney is removing the chains and looking to get government out of the way.
Nov '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I've wondered that too. But are those expectations so powerful outside Ricochet?
I'd agree that the style is the concern, not substance. Biden's not going to try on substance, he's going to try to be sentimental and pull heartstrings.
Also, Ryan's had lots of practice recently, but he usually seems a little less comfortable with a written speech in front of a large crowd, rather than a town-hall style with lots of audience interaction and back-and-forth. There's the risk of overpreparation.
Thing is, the Ryan team has known all this for weeks. I'm looking forward to it.
Feb '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
"My fear is that if Biden doesn't spend 90 minutes drooling and soiling his pants, the narrative will be that he "won" the debate."
I don't see how Biden can show up without drooling and soiling his pants.
May '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I was nauseous with tension before the debate the other night. But as soon as they walked onstage one thing was apparent: Romney was happy and relaxed and looking forward to it; Obama was tense and nervous. I calmed down.
I have no doubt whatsoever (does anyone?) that Ryan is looking forward to the debate and Biden is dreading it.
May '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
That will be the narrative even if he does spend 90 minutes drooling and soiling his pants.
Oct '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Joseph Stanko:
All Ryan has to do is show up without cloven hooves, horns, or fangs dripping with the blood of senior citizens and he wins the debate. · 3 hours ago
David Axelrod is working on it.
Aug '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
It doesn't matter what the expectations are, so long as the victory is decisive. Obama and the media tried to work the expectations game in Obama's favor, and they could have used that to spin the debate had it been close, but given what a blowout it was, none of that mattered.
Or as the saying goes, "If it's not close, they can't cheat." Ryan's job is to bury Biden in facts and show command of the subject matter that Biden can't match. I think he'll do that, and then expectations are irrelevent.
The worst-case scenario is that Ryan gets spooked by the sheer magnitude of the event and chokes. It's happened before, and this will be his first national debate with this kind of audience watching. Biden's been there before. To me, that's the only risk factor.
Edited on October 6, 2012 at 12:41amApr '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
This is essentially my fear; Palin didn't handle him, although it wasn't her fault. The most memorable moment of the night for me was the commentary on the "what does the Constitution say about the VP" question. Palin said it was a little vague. Biden went into this detailed description that was entirely false, getting articles 1 and 2 mixed up, claiming that the VP wasn't mentioned in the legislative article, and completely misdescribing the duties. Every news channel described him as the winner of that encounter, and his superior knowledge was widely praised.
If Biden similarly makes stuff up this time, he may get a similar win. Ryan knows the budget like the back of his hand, but he's on unfamiliar turf when he debates the fiscal realities of Biden's fantasyland, a place where Biden recently shopped at long departed stores and Biden's home turf.
May '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
A difference, though, James, is that Ryan will be able to call out Biden's "untruths" in a way Palin couldn't. She's got great instincts and principles, but her hold on the facts in question was shaky. Don't you agree?
Aug '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I don't believe Sarah Palin had quite the command of the facts that Ryan does. If Joe Biden tries to baffle with BS, Ryan will be able to call him on it.
One of the best moments of the debate the other night was when Obama tried to pull that on Romney by claiming that there were tax loopholes to reward people for moving jobs overseas. Sarah Palin wouldn't have been in a position to refute that, most likely, and Obama would have scored a point with nonsense. Romney, on the other hand, looked him in the eye and said, "I've been in business for 25 years, and I have no idea what you are talking about." Slam. Dunk.
Ryan has the capability to do that. Go back and watch his toe-to-toe with Obama during the Obamacare hearings. Ryan has an agile mind and the ability to think on his feet, and he's steeped in knowledge. So long as he keeps his composure, he should do fine.
Sep '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
The knives will be out for Ryan the way it wasn't for Palin, since the fear was Biden coming off as a condescending jerk against a female candidate. But Ryan is vastly learned, super intelligent, and eloquent, so I don't think he'll have a problem clobbering old Joe.
Mar '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Let's hope Mr Ryan doesn't throw Mr Biden, in a wheelchair, over a cliff.
Other than that, what can possibly go wrong?
Apr '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Advice to Congressman Ryan: practice saying the line, "Well, there you go again!"
I don't think Biden is dreading the debate as some of you do. In his way, Biden seems the happy warrior. Deranged, but happy. Obviously, he has no limits to what he will say, and he'll say it with confidence, no matter how wrong it is. At least some of the folks watching aren't going to be able tell the difference between the two very confident, knowledgeable-seeming men on stage.
They will have different styles. Joe is a story-teller. Ryan is a just-the-facts sort. I would suggest that the Congressman should practice a little storytelling, too.
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I hope he does!
David Williamson: Let's hope Mr Ryan doesn't throw Mr Biden, in a wheelchair, over a cliff.
Other than that, what can possibly go wrong? · 4 minutes ago
Sep '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
The issue isn't high expectations for Ryan but low expectations for Biden.
For instance, if Biden is asked a hard question, it is my expectation that he will pull a seltzer bottle out of his pants and squirt it at the moderator. Anything short of that, I would view as a victory for the Democrats.
Aug '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
There has to be a reckoning for the choice of Biden. It is Ryan.
Can anyone reasonably state why Biden was picked ?
Apr '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I can't help seeing the Biden/Ryan match up as a bizarro version of Bentsen/Quayle.
Apr '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
And afterwards ask him to stand up.
Kay Ludlow: I hope he does!
David Williamson: Let's hope Mr Ryan doesn't throw Mr Biden, in a wheelchair, over a cliff.
Other than that, what can possibly go wrong? · 4 minutes ago
May '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Dan Hanson: It doesn't matter what the expectations are, so long as the victory is decisive. Obama and the media tried to work the expectations game in Obama's favor, and they could have used that to spin the debate had it been close, but given what a blowout it was, none of that mattered.
Or as the saying goes, "If it's not close, they can't cheat."
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Obama was trying to lower expectations for his own debate performance at the same time that the MSM was declaring Romney an utterly hapless candidate and the election over. Moreover a lot of people still think of Obama as the guy with the soaring rhetoric about "hope and change" and the "ocean's ceasing to rise and the earth beginning to heal" and all that other embarrassing blather from 2008. No way he was going into that first debate without high expectations, no matter what his protestations about Romney's recent debate experience in the primaries.