The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
bagodonuts ·
October 5, 2012 at 11:06pm
Now that we've had a couple of days of post-debate celebration, let's consider the upcoming vice-presidential debate, this coming Thursday in Danville, Kentucky.
Are conservatives going to be at the mercy of unrealistically high expectations for Ryan, and unrealistically low ones for Biden? My fear is that if Biden doesn't spend 90 minutes drooling and soiling his pants, the narrative will be that he "won" the debate.
Please, someone, tell me I'm wrong.
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Comments:
Jul '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
You're wrong
Paul Ryan has been debate prepping with this Killer Rabbit
As you know, that rabbit is dynamite
Edited on October 5, 2012 at 7:55pmMar '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
What the man said.
Jun '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I don't think so.
Given the intelligence, articulateness, and presence of the two participants, it will be disappointing if Ryan doesn't clean Biden's clock.
Ryan, just like Romney with Obama, won't be afraid of Biden: remember how he stood up to Obama at the Blair House Obamacare meeting. Ryan knows enough to challenge Joe on factual misrepresentations and hyperbole. Even clueless Joe has got to know he's outmatched.
The moment Ryan gets under Biden's skin (sometime in the first ten minutes) it will all be over.
Sep '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Some observations:
1. There are questions about the jobs numbers that have been released today--questions being asked by ABC, CNBC, and presumably others.
2. If this story--that the numbers are suspect--develops legs, Paul Ryan is perfectly positioned to use it to attack Biden.
3. Biden--let's be candid--isn't the financial policy wonk in this conversation. He can't go into the numbers--he can only play "good ol' Joe" and bluster.
4. Even if the are-the-numbers-bogus story doesn't stand up, the actual released numbers--particularly the U-6 number--gives Ryan all the ammo he needs.
5. Biden can't out-wonk Ryan--even with months of debate prep. He can use personal charm, and tell stories--anecdotes about poor mothers who died when they lost their health care, seniors crying on his shoulder about the Medicare Cuts of the Evil Dr. Ryan, and so forth.
6. Ryan has to maintain a cheery disposition--the "happy warrior" attitude of Jack Kemp and Andrew Breitbart--and clobber him with the cold, hard, indisputable facts.
Bring popcorn. It'll be better than Wednesday night.
Sep '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
A friend of mine posted on FB that he'd gone to see Biden at a rally recently & came away with this 'powerful' message: Whenever my father was asked to talk about his values, he would reply 'show me your budget and I'll tell you what you believe in.' I wrote my friend, did Biden explain what his father would have said if he couldn't show him a budget in 3 1/2 years? I just looked now & it seems my friend has deleted my comment.
Hoping that comes up in the debate.
May '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
You're not wrong. Ryan is known for being a wunderkind, and Biden is know for being a buffoon. Ryan can, and probably will, wipe the floor with Biden on substance. But on perception, it's borderline impossible to overcome that disparity in expectations.
Plus -- and I love Paul Ryan so don't take this the wrong way -- but Ryan has just a bit of the earnest "annoying teachers pet in the front row with his hand in the air all the time" about him.
And Biden has just a bit of the "grandpa's old, so cut him some slack if he says crazy things sometimes" about him.
I think as a result, a lot of people are going to feel a tiny inner tug to cuddle up to Biden and see Ryan cut off just a little bit at the knees.
Nov '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
You're wrong. Ryan on his worst day is miles better than Biden on his best day. It'll end up being a waste of Ryan's time, but we plebes will get some entertainment value out of it.
Nov '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I think you're right, Bag. The "clock-cleaning" expectations are very high as demonstrated by the posts disagreeing with you.
Apr '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Considering expectations, my guess is that, at worst, it ends up perceived as a draw. I imagine it'll be a low key, forgettable affair like most VP debates that don't involve Sarah Palin.
Whatever happens will be quickly overshadowed by the next Romney-Ryan match.
Jun '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
That's a big "if"...
Jun '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
On a more serious note, it's only us plugged-in conservatives who have a high opinion of Ryan. The public at large didn't know who he was before Romney picked him, and since then the MSM and Obama ads have defined him as a heartless man who wants to eliminate the "safety net" and kill Medicare.
All Ryan has to do is show up without cloven hooves, horns, or fangs dripping with the blood of senior citizens and he wins the debate.
May '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Cutlass: Considering expectations, my guess is that, at worst, it ends up perceived as a draw. I imagine it'll be a low key, forgettable affair like most VP debates that don't involve Sarah Palin.
Whatever happens will be quickly overshadowed by the next Romney-Ryan match. · 25 minutes ago
This strikes me as correct. Win or lose, the VP debate is purely entertainment value. All Romney has to prove is that he didn't choose someone manifestly unqualified (the bar is pretty low), and the public will be satisfied. Worst result: both sides will spin it as a victory for their side (am I a contrarian for thinking that Biden is actually a better debater than Obama?), the media will spin it as a victory for Obama, the public will see that Ryan is ok, shrug, and move on.
May '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Joseph Stanko:
All Ryan has to do is show up without cloven hooves, horns, or fangs dripping with the blood of senior citizens and he wins the debate. · 17 minutes ago
You're probably right.
May '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
My mild worry about it (overshadowed by confidence) is that Biden is basically a political impressionist, while Ryan is a realist. It's hard to imagine these two meeting in a coherent debate.
Biden tends to say whatever he thinks creates the impression that he is on the side of right and good. So if Ryan says something that seems right and good, Biden will agree with it. Whatever he thinks Americans don't want and don't like, he'll say that's what Ryan and Romney want to do, regardless of reality. If Ryan contradicts him too much, he risks sounding defensive.
On the other hand, I've seen Ryan deal handily with Debbie Blabbermouth Schulz's loose relation to facts in debate. So I'm not really worried.
Edited on October 5, 2012 at 9:45pmJul '11
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I hope Biden comes well prepared and does well articulating Obama's ridiculous ideas. The better Biden speaks the clearer Ryan can decimate him. It's all good. Ryan is the smartest man in congress about the economy and that topic will be front and center.
Nov '10
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
If Sarah Palin can handle him, so can Ryan. I just expect something similar to what happened with Romney and Obama. An easy win and we all just sort of go ho-hum. We were excited about Romney because we didn't expect.
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
Please. If Biden does spend 90 minutes drooling and then completes the debate by announcing he has twelve wild ferrets in his trousers the media will declare it a victory that there weren't 13.
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I faced the first Romney-Obama debate with much trepidation. I'm facing the Ryan-Biden debate with much anticipation.
Aug '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
I'd be more worried about the perception that the young man on stage wouldn't stop beating up the old senile statesman.
Much like the Romney v Obama debate this will be a good chance for Ryan to make his case to the American people and they can see for themselves that he isn't a granny killer.
May '12
Re: The Vice-Presidential Debate: Expectation Problems?
That's what I'm worried about too. On the plus side, it's a pretty obvious risk, so I'm sure Ryan and his prep team are cognizant of it.