The Unnerving Example of Argentina
The first time I read Paul Johnson's magnificent history of the twentieth century, Modern Times? Back in the Eighties, when the book first came out--and things were going pretty well for this republic. Re-reading portions of the book this evening--at a time, needless to say, when things aren't going so well--I found myself struck by something to which I had earlier paid little attention: Johnson's account of Argentina.
By the turn of the twentieth century, Johnson explains, Argentina had become, with Australia, one of only two countries outside Europe and North America to achieve wealth on the level of a Great Britain, Germany or United States. Then, as the result of a military coup, Juan Peron came to power. A gifted demagogue, Peron ingratiated himself with workers using his oratorical skills--and by creating, and ceaselessly expanding, a welfare state. In 1955, the military turned on him, sending Peron into exile. But it was too late.
[H]is successors could never get back to the minimum government which had allowed Argentina to become wealthy. Too many vested interests had been created: a huge, parasiticial state, over-powerful unions, a vast army of public employees. It is one of the dismal lessons of the twentieth century that, once a state is allowed to expand, it is almost impossible to contract it.
ObamaCare delenda est.
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Mar '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Actually this model goes back a long long way. The Patron system is a Roman construct, prevalant today not just in Spain and former Spanish territories, but throughout much of the Mediterranean world and its offshoots. This sort of Patronage (through several evolutions and grossly simplified for my point) became the Medieval Feudalism system. It wasn't a Protestant - Catholic split, but a deeper divergence between Romanized and non-Romanized Europe that set this up.
Mar '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
katievs
I agree with you, Paules, that the problem of paternalism is more serious and endemic in Latin America, and though I'm Catholic and have differences with you about the value of the Reformation, I do see the link you mention.
See my earlier point. This isn't really a Catholic-Protestant cultural split at its root. It is a far older split along Roman / Germanic fault lines. You see that same economic / cultural fracture between say Austrian and Spanish Catholics.
The Patronage poison goes back a long long way. It's just a natural fit with socialism, which is why socialism found fertile soil in former Spanish colonies.
Jun '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Anything the great Paul Johnson has written should be read. Modern Times is, I believe, his masterpiece.
Younger conservatives should read it--it places the events of the day in context. And the man writes like a dream.
Peter: Put him on Uncommon Knowledge even if you have to fly to London to do it, and while you're there do one with Melanie Phillips, Theodore Dalrymple, and David Pryce-Jones.
Edited on February 10, 2012 at 4:40pmJun '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
skipsul
Actually this model goes back a long long way. The Patron system is a Roman construct, prevalant today not just in Spain and former Spanish territories, but throughout much of the Mediterranean world and its offshoots. This sort of Patronage (through several evolutions and grossly simplified for my point) became the Medieval Feudalism system. It wasn't a Protestant - Catholic split, but a deeper divergence between Romanized and non-Romanized Europe that set this up. · 16 minutes ago
Exactly. And Germanic custom would eventually evolve into what we call English Common Law. Not a bad contribution from a bunch of hairy barbarians. But don't be too hard on the Latins. They valued and preserved Greek philosophy even if they didn't add much to it. Combine the above with Judeo-Christian ethics and you have the three mighty pillars that provide the foundation for the western world, and the basis for modernity itself. It's ironic that the left has substituted "social justice" for the rule of law, opinion for logic, and neo-paganism for religion. And this is progressive? In my book they are reactionary in the extreme.
Sep '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
YES YES YES!!! YOU GOT IT!
Obama is a Juan Peron fascist. BINGO!
On my own blog, I had compared Obama to Mussolini until a commenter turned me on to Peron. Once I read more about the guy it clicked. Whereas Hitler used the power of the State to support the Volk, Peron used the power of the State to support the poor.
The more you read about Peron and the arc of his story, the more you see Obama.
Sep '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Peron's political philosophy was built around Justicialism and was modeled heavily on Mussolini's fascism. Justicialism is a pretty good approximation of the intellectual core of Obama's speeches and behaviors.
I've spent some time exploring this topic and I'm convinced that Obama is a Peronist, or close enough to one to call him that. As you say, Peter, the end results are disastrous.
Sep '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Sorry to keep commenting, but you've hit the nail right on the head. Here's a bit more about Peronism from the man himself.
Patria Socialista!
May '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
skipsul
See my earlier point. This isn't really a Catholic-Protestant cultural split at its root. It is a far older split along Roman / Germanic fault lines. You see that same economic / cultural fracture between say Austrian and Spanish Catholics.
The Patronage poison goes back a long long way. It's just a natural fit with socialism, which is why socialism found fertile soil in former Spanish colonies. · 1 hour ago
I don't know about that. I think a strong case can be made for a link between the stress on freedom of conscience and self-government and the Protestant Reformation.
Being Catholic, I wish Luther and the other reformers had been more like St. Francis. I wish they had fought for reform from within, rather than splintering Christendom as they disastrously did. But on conscience and self-government, they were right, as Vatican II confirms.
May '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
genferei
But Johnson doesn't say it was nationalised healthcare that crippled Argentina (it clearly wasn't), but
There is an awful lot more that delenda est. Obamacare is a symptom, not the disease. · 5 hours ago
ObamaCare is not only the precedent for entrenching the above machinery, it actually accomplishes a fair bit of it. ObamaCare is not a health care problem--it's the Reichstag fire.
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Peter - thanks for posting. I used to live in Argentina, where I was an editor of the Buenos Aires Herald, evidence of the country's past glory are everywhere. Argentina's constitution (adopted mid-19th century) was modeled very closely on the US constitution. In 1897, however, the Argentine Supreme Court basically eliminated the concept of federalism, holding that the equivalent of the "general welfare" clause empowered the central government to legislate on the internal affairs of the provinces.
Yes, there are *huge* differences between Argentine and US culture, but those differences do not ensure that we won't go down the same road. After all, the US Supreme Court "caught up" to the Argentine Court in the 1940s, turning federalism into a dead letter in cases such as Wickard and Helvering. Now in 2012, it is still considered an uphill battle to restore federalism. Yes, Argentina has fallen victim to messianic leaders (Peron - who came back in the 1970s for yet another term in office; and more recently Sr. and Sra. Kirchner); but then again, we elected "the One.
Peter's right: it is unnerving.
Mar '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
This reminds me of Claire re-reading 1984 from the perspective of where we are at the moment - there are probably many such books to re-read.
Which makes it all the more sad that the Republican establishment still don't get it, and seem prepared to sit out 2012 and wait for 2016 - when, of course, it will be too late.
The Republic is hanging by a thread.
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Adam Freedman: Peter - thanks for posting. I used to live in Argentina, where I was an editor of the Buenos Aires Herald, evidence of the country's past glory are everywhere. Argentina's constitution (adopted mid-19th century) was modeled very closely on the US constitution. In 1897, however, the Argentine Supreme Court basically eliminated the concept of federalism, holding that the equivalent of the "general welfare" clause empowered the central government to legislate on the internal affairs of the provinces.
Yes, there are *huge* differences between Argentine and US culture, but those differences do not ensure that we won't go down the same road. After all, the US Supreme Court "caught up" to the Argentine Court in the 1940s, turning federalism into a dead letter in cases such as Wickard and Helvering. Now in 2012, it is still considered an uphill battle to restore federalism. Yes, Argentina has fallen victim to messianic leaders (Peron - who came back in the 1970s for yet another term in · 46 minutes ago
You used to live in Argentina, Adam? There really is no bottom to you.
Dec '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
genferei
But Johnson doesn't say it was nationalised healthcare that crippled Argentina (it clearly wasn't), but
There is an awful lot more that delenda est. Obamacare is a symptom, not the disease. · 7 hours ago
In Canada the Nurses unions are as powerful and large as the teachers unions. So by definition, nationalization of health care means large over powerful unions.
Interestingly, in the Canadian coming to terms stage of fiscal discipline Argentina was discussed frequently as an object lesson in getting it wrong. The Canadian parallels are even more striking.
One of the fictions in common currency right now in the US is that it doesn't matter, it will go away like a bad cold. Argentina describes a chronic wasting illness. The fools who don't consider the US fiscal situation as dire need to hear about Argentina every day.
Apr '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Per Angus Maddison in Historical Statistics of the World Economy: 1-2006 AD, per capita GDP in 1900 for: Argentina, $2756; United Kingdom, $4492; Germany, $2985; France, $2876; Australia, $4013; Canada, $2911; New Zealand, $4298; Chile, $2194; Uruguay, $2219; Ceylon, $1290; Japan, $1180.
The 30 nations of Western Europe averaged $2885, Eastern Europe (7 nations) $1438, Western Offshoots (US & the Anzacs) $4015. The world average was $1261.
There could be something to this idea that English Common Law promotes prosperity.
Oct '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Since 2009, I have been arguing that people who believe that Obama is an American Lenin or Wilson/FDR/LBJ 2.0 are mistaken: the closest approximation is that he is an American Perón, and that the consequences of his transformation will be similar: loss of exceptionalism and creation of a dependent majority which will perpetuate the decline into misery for all but the ruling class and freeze forever mobility based upon merit and effort.
Now here is the gnarly part. How do you get out of this self-reinforcing feedback loop, especially after you cross the tipping point where a majority of the electorate pays no taxes and is dependent upon the largesse of the minority who do? Looking at examples in my lifetime, I'm forced to say, “Think Pinochet, not Reagan”. Yes, I'm citing another country down there in the skinny part of the continent, but that's the only case I can recall where a country walked back, even by a limited amount and perhaps only for a while, from the abyss.
And it was far from pretty.
Edited on February 10, 2012 at 9:11pmAug '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
John Walker: “Think Pinochet, not Reagan”. Yes, I'm citing another country down there in the skinny part of the continent, but that's the only case I can recall where a country walked back, even by a limited amount and perhaps only for a while, from the abyss.
And it was far from pretty.
It still isn't pretty. I've been watching Chilean as well as Argentine websites and wonder how gloomy that country is going to be. Unlike Argentina it had no palliative Euro sheen when I last saw it, and it doesn't seem to be cultivating one now. Which would be good, if Chileans were cultivating something else. But I'm not seeing it. There is something timeless and organic to their discontents, which appear to be crime (too much), government handouts (too few), and the fear that if they mine their lithium deposits, then someone somewhere will be getting rich and that must be bad. It hardly matters who is in La Moneda.
Aug '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Oh, now I remember something about that Paul Johnson book. It was the one where he was discussing JFK's Alliance for Progress, only he (Johnson) didn't call it that. Striving either for the Spanish or Portuguese translation, he put "Alliance for Progress" in Italian.
Johnson is interesting but he is also sloppy.
Apr '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
John H.
There is something timeless and organic to their discontents, which appear to be crime (too much), government handouts (too few), and the fear that if they mine their lithium deposits, thensomeone somewherewill begetting richand thatmustbe bad.
I did not follow closely the story of the trapped Chilean miners. I was happy they were rescued, but had no compelling interest. One thing you prompt me to ask: for what were they burrowing? None of the stories I glanced at told me what mineral they were seeking.
I know nothing about Chile (beyond being able to pick them out on a map), but apparently they're mineral-rich. They provided a lot of saltpeter/nitrates-in-general for both world wars, did they not?
Aug '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Glenn the Iconoclast
I did not follow closely the story of the trapped Chilean miners. I was happy they were rescued, but had no compelling interest. One thing you prompt me to ask: for what were they burrowing? None of the stories I glanced at told me what mineral they were seeking.
I wasn't actually referring to those guys, who were probably mining for copper. That's just a guess - I don't know. But I do know mining is big in Chile. They do have nitrates. And they account for 41% of world lithium production, with presumed reserves for 1500 years. I brought it up here only because of recent stories of the government opening mining concessions and some people being unhappy about it. It was the nature of their unhappiness that struck me: not an environmental or health issue, just a good ol'-fashioned Latin American hatred of exploiting one's patrimony.