The Unnerving Example of Argentina
The first time I read Paul Johnson's magnificent history of the twentieth century, Modern Times? Back in the Eighties, when the book first came out--and things were going pretty well for this republic. Re-reading portions of the book this evening--at a time, needless to say, when things aren't going so well--I found myself struck by something to which I had earlier paid little attention: Johnson's account of Argentina.
By the turn of the twentieth century, Johnson explains, Argentina had become, with Australia, one of only two countries outside Europe and North America to achieve wealth on the level of a Great Britain, Germany or United States. Then, as the result of a military coup, Juan Peron came to power. A gifted demagogue, Peron ingratiated himself with workers using his oratorical skills--and by creating, and ceaselessly expanding, a welfare state. In 1955, the military turned on him, sending Peron into exile. But it was too late.
[H]is successors could never get back to the minimum government which had allowed Argentina to become wealthy. Too many vested interests had been created: a huge, parasiticial state, over-powerful unions, a vast army of public employees. It is one of the dismal lessons of the twentieth century that, once a state is allowed to expand, it is almost impossible to contract it.
ObamaCare delenda est.
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Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
If I recall correctly, Argentina's pre-Perón per-capita GNP was something on the order of France's. Currently, France's per-capita GDP is about $35,000, and Argentina's is a little less than exactly half of that—$17,000 and change.
Progress is contingent and reversible.
Jul '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Obama, high flying, adored, must be systematically dismantled by our side for the GOP to win. The stakes are indeed as high as Argentina's were.
Feb '12
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
In Argentina they had the Peron's in Ameritopia you've got The One.. After the cult of personality is over.. Barack and Michelle friends of the poor and downtrodden while living the good life at the top and lapping cream from the favoured rich. Peritonitis..
Apr '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Argentina's a very interesting place; I've visited several times and have always thought of the country as a bit of a cautionary tale, a close relative who took a different path. They have a history similar to ours-- a large diverse immigrant European population (Italian, German, Jewish, Irish, Welsh) living in a wide broad land rich in natural resources. A hundred years ago they were a legitimate economic & cultural rival to the US; in some ways Buenos Aires was the New York City of Latin America. Its saddens me to see where Argentina is now, imagining what they could have been.
I've been worried lately, wondering if we elected our own Peron in 2008.
Jul '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
doc molloy, peritonitis is good. You struck a peroneal nerve away from the perineum.
Feb '12
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
DocJay- The One dispenses dyspepsia with ease..
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Bill Walsh: If I recall correctly, Argentina's pre-Perón per-capita GNP was something on the order of France's. Currently, France's per-capita GDP is about $35,000, and Argentina's is a little less than exactly half of that—$17,000 and change.
Progress is contingent and reversible. · 54 minutes ago
Well, truly--and alarmingly--said.
Jul '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Well doc molloy, we have all felt that from El Uno, maybe even some dyspareunia.
Feb '12
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Well DocJay, El Uno may soon be a dysperado and on the run to Chaveztopia.. When the shifty get shafted they shove off south of the border down socialism way..
Oct '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Bill Walsh: If I recall correctly, Argentina's pre-Perón per-capita GNP was something on the order of France's. Currently, France's per-capita GDP is about $35,000, and Argentina's is a little less than exactly half of that—$17,000 and change.
Progress is contingent and reversible. · 1 hour ago
Last fall in my Econ Hist course we looked at data on Argentina (and other parts of the New World) relative to the U.S. and it was relatively higher as recent as WWII. If I remember correctly (probably not) it was something like 30% higher.
May '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
I adore Paul Johnson, and I commend you Peter for selecting that paragraph out of thousands for placement here.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Feb '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
The US ain't Argentina.
A tiny data point. I used to work at a unionized steel mill. I've never forgotten the story I heard in 1996 that employees at a certain part of the mill told union reps that they would cross picket lines if the union went on strike that year. I believed it- and it was told to me in such a way that I thought the union believed it also.
There was no strike- that year or since.
EDIT: My date is wrong. I realized that once I posted- and I went googling to fix that. Kind of off topic but I found out that the one union rep I recall who had a clue is now the union local president.
I'm thrilled about that, actually. I know he deserved that success, and I salute him for it, Argentina whatever.
Edited on February 10, 2012 at 10:23amJun '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Be careful not to draw comparisons when contrasts are in order. There's a cultural component to this equation. While the rest of Europe benefited from a religious reformation and a cultural renaissance, Spain dug in her heels against the forces of modernity. The tragedy is that Spain exported a medieval mindset to the Americas. El Patron, or El Jefe in the modern idiom, was expected to be a provider and protector of his people. Peron fits the template.
The difference is that the English and their spawn value self-sufficiency and individual rights. It's a thread stretching back to ancient Germanic law with a mention by no less than Tacitus. The United States of America is not Argentina. We just don't roll that way. And if we ever get close, our streets will erupt in gunfire. And the populace will be well-armed.
So say I.
Oct '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
But Johnson doesn't say it was nationalised healthcare that crippled Argentina (it clearly wasn't), but
There is an awful lot more that delenda est. Obamacare is a symptom, not the disease.
Apr '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Peter I am reading this first thing in the morning (at least since I got online I have read some scripture). are you engaged in negative projection
Apr '11
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
I'm unsure of the reason for your post. Are we DOOMED to repeat history? How does that make you feel? Looks like your engaged in some unhealthy projection. Don't you have some wood to chop?
Oct '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
Argentina is merely a cautionary tale. We ignore failures at far greater peril than ignoring success. To not succeed means not moving forward. To fail means to slip back towards the abyss.
Argentina hasn't quite fallen into the abyss, but they certainly are a pathetic image of their past. Egypt...Persia...Greece...Rome...Spain...Britannia... America??
Will we some day be selling hot dogs to sightseers at the Washington Monument, as the lower classes in Greece sell Gyros at the Parthenon?
May '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
I agree with you, Paules, that the problem of paternalism is more serious and endemic in Latin America, and though I'm Catholic and have differences with you about the value of the Reformation, I do see the link you mention.
If we succeed in turning things around it will be because of our tradition of cherishing independence. But that tradition has been drastically and systematically undermined over the course of the last century. The Tea Party is a heartening counter indication.
We need, beside a massive roll back of government, a massive cultural revival, including a re-education about America.
Aug '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
I expect to be in Argentina in a couple of weeks and I am stoked. Even though I've been reading local websites and the place clearly retains the gloom I remember from decades ago. I always had the idea Argentines, unlike most peoples who just can't stop making bad moves, forever console themselves by telling themselves they sure look European. That excuses everything!
Dec '10
Re: The Unnerving Example of Argentina
If we have a $14T economy with this much government no our backs just imagine what we would be like if we were truly free.
Make welfare checks as hard to get as building permits.