The Trojan Horse
Greece is said to have invented modern Western civilization. So it is with some surprise that I read that Greece is now planning to wreck Western civilization with an out-of-left field Trojan Horse referendum--let's not kid ourselves about the consequences of default on Eurozone sovereign debt--so that the Greek government can stay in power. A referendum to decide the fate of the world's financial system? When Greece has essentially been offered a get-out-of-jail-free-except-for-cuts-you-should-have-made-a-long-time-ago card?
This, yet again, underscores the stupidity of any concept of a "federal" Europe. In Orwell's words, binding together countries that have no industrial base, no trustworthy institutions for revenue collection, or any semblance of fiscal responsibility in a common currency with an economy like Germany's was "so stupid an idea that only intellectuals would believe it." It was the equivalent of trying to cure groundwater runoff from a polluted wastewater dump into a major river system by digging a canal between the two. In the rush to blur all distinctions of history, culture, national ability, and national mindset in the "new Europe," free from the oh-so-yesterday concepts of nationhood and sovereignty, Europe's elites forgot that not all cultures or systems on the continent produce equal results, equal opportunities, or contribute equally to the progress of the world.
Margaret Thatcher is no longer in politics, but she can be proud of her political martyrdom at the hands of nutty Europhiles. To quote her in Statecraft, "during (Thatcher's) lifetime most of the problems the world has faced have come, in one fashion or other, from mainland Europe, and the solutions from outside it." Is this going to be true for our lifetimes as well?
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Comments :
Nov '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
Interesting idea. Greece came up with the ideas and institutions that evolved into Western Civilization, and now Greece is the first to succumb to the poison that is overtaking us. I don't know how accurate that analysis is, but it has a nice symmetry.
Jan '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
Well, if this post had a "Like" button, I'd have clicked it.
Sep '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
Athens rolled over for Macedon and its been downhill ever since. There's a fearful symmetry (vague physics reference) to the current crisis.
Jan '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
Ah, the benefits of globalization! One falls and the rest of us go tumblin' down.
We need a few financial firebreaks here and there. Synergy, my butt ...
Oct '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
This would be a Blake reference, no?
Oct '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
Shouldn't we be applauding Greece for taking back its right to democratic self-determination from Brussels? Being conservative, I was under the impression that it was desirable for sovereign states to choose their own path and live with the consequences, rather than meekly accepting the dictates of unaccountable federal bureaucrats far removed from their own land. Why should the Greeks just shut up and do what Europe says? Would we? I think not.
Edited on Nov 1, 2011 at 11:25pmOct '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
Here's Daniel Hannan's view: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100114609/greece-gets-its-euro-referendum/
May '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
The deal offered to Greece was one that did not come close to covering Greece's needs & served only to buy other EU countries and their banks some time. Even if the deal worked (and I don't see how it could) it would condemn the Greeks to a generation of depression.
Like Blake and Hannan, I applaud the referendum and if I were a citizen of Greece, would be voting against the deal.
Dec '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
KC Mulville: Ah, the benefits of globalization! One falls and the rest of us go tumblin' down.
We need a few financial firebreaks here and there. Synergy, my butt ... · Nov 1 at 9:31pm
I have to disagree. I don't think this as the result of globalization, which from my perspective has made many economies more resilient to internal and external collapses. I believe Greece, and the failings of the Euro are the result of artificial segmentation. It is simply large scale socialization, localizing profits through extravagant social welfare schemes and socializing losses through currency devaluation and transfers of wealth from productive sectors or countries to non-productive counterparts.
The US tried to erect "firewalls" by passing Smoot-Hawley during the 30's and I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who thought that was less than disasterous despite the large number of US voters that may like to enact similar legislation now.
Edited on Nov 2, 2011 at 3:16amSep '10
Re: The Trojan Horse
On one level I do not disagree with your points, but I think this has more to do with the inevitable weakness of socialism than the Eurozone. Rule by experts (elites) seem always to lead to collectivist pseudo-solutions and oddly it makes little difference if the experts label themselves conservatives or liberals.
Jan '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
Not so sure. The Soviet world occupied a much larger space, and were certainly as willing to socialize losses as anyone today ... but when they collapsed, they didn't take the rest of us down with them. It wasn't their socialization that threatens us, but our connection to them. Also, whatever Smoot-Hawley may have been, it wasn't the only possible method of protecting us. Its failure didn't preclude other avenues of defense.
One of the troubles with Greece is that Europe's perspective begins after the problem develops. Germany sees Greece in trouble and wants to lead a rescue ... as if Greece's problems came out of nowhere like an act of God. Greece's problems, however, developed over time, and were mostly self-inflicted. To rescue them now would only prolong their self-destruction and drag us into it.
Mar '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
It would be a nice symmetry except that the people we call "Greeks" bear little relation to the Greeks of antiquity. Same with trying to equate Italy with the Romans - too much cultural mixing.
Mar '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
The real financial issue, if I understand things, boils down to this:
NONE of the lenders can afford a real honest-to-God writeoff of Greek debt, because those Greek bonds are treated as assets on the banks' books. If those assets go to Zero, then the banks are suddenly stuck with fewer assets to hold in reserve against the money they've loaned out elsewhere. If Greece defaults, therefore, lending has to diminish and loan notes have to be called in or the banks will be forced to default too.
See Japan in the 1990's, but enlarged to cover Europe.
See USA in 2008-09 too.
Jan '11
Re: The Trojan Horse
As far as I know, a date for the referendum hasn't been set. Consider this alternative scenario: the Greek government falls and they get to have a general election while scrambling to cover their debts. I wonder if this is Papandreou's plan for not being prime minister when the house of cards falls?
Apart from that, the latest "bailout" smells extremely fishy to me. The EU/IMF is going to throw a lot more money at Greece in the hopes of...reducing its debt/GDP ratio to a mere 120% by 2020??? Anybody think Greece can survive under those conditions? I'm no financial expert, but I wonder whether the "bailout" money isn't mostly going to French and German banks that hold a lot of Greek debt, and whether the continuing bailouts will stop when the banks feel safe.
The Greeks might well feel they're better off to exit the EU, default now, and start printing drachmas. Why prolong the agony?