The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
GoyoMarquez ·
May 13, 2011 at 5:15pm
Great article in Rolling Stone about how Goldman Sachs, with the help of the Federal Government, raped its clients, got away with it and keeps getting away with it. It's not free enterprise when the government lets you get away with fraud just because you're rich and powerful.
This is the kind of stuff small government conservatives should be fighting rather than worrying about kindergarten teacher's pensions. But I suppose Goldman Sach's is a somewhat more intimidating opponent than Mrs. Gilly.
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Jul '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Good catch. If Goldman isn't prosecuted, we are officially a banana republic.
Feb '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
I agree that if Goldman has committed crimes they should be prosecuted, just as all criminals should. As the Galleon case has shown there is a market for criminal prosecutions of Wall Streeters, even billionaires.
I disagree that small government conservatives shouldn't be worried about kindergarten teacher's pensions, Mrs. Gilly individually may be nice and well meaning, but having tens or hundreds of thousands of Mrs. Gilly's across the nation on underfunded defined benefit pension plans is a big problem for small government conservatives. And Mrs Gilly and her ilk certainly did their best to be intimadating in Madison, Wisconsin these past few months.
Aren't the criticisms of Wall Street similar to the public unions? Regulatory capture, cronyism, rent-seeking, self-dealing, concentrated benefits/diffused costs, etc. Small government conservatives should be opposed to these in whatever form they take and it shouldn't be an either/or.
Oct '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Mrs. Gilly's union dues elected the corruptacrats who enabled Goldman-Sachs to do their deeds. If you are OK with the support from Mrs. Gilly then you are OK with the Goldman-Sachs outcome.
Feb '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Other Conor:
Aren't the criticisms of Wall Street similar to the public unions? Regulatory capture, cronyism, rent-seeking, self-dealing, concentrated benefits/diffused costs, etc. Small government conservatives should be opposed to these in whatever form they take and it shouldn't be an either/or. · May 13 at 3:45pm
Yeah I think that's about right. The thing is by starting with the teachers we're starting at the bottom of the economic pyramid, picking on those least able to defend themselves, and leaving the rich and powerful for some time in the future when we get around to it. It just doesn't smell right.
Let's for once start at the top and leave the poor and middle class till we get around to it.
Feb '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
If you read the article then you know it wasn't just Democrats it was Republicans as well. Doesn't the name Hank Paulson ring a bell?
Feb '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
GoyoMarquez
Yeah I think that's about right. The thing is by starting with the teachers we're starting at the bottom of the economic pyramid, picking on those least able to defend themselves, and leaving the rich and powerful for some time in the future when we get around to it. It just doesn't smell right.
Let's for once start at the top and leave the poor and middle class till we get around to it. · May 13 at 4:12pm
I would disagree that the teachers (as a group) are least able to defend themselves, it is probably the opposite. The problem is when taxpayers try and defend themselves against the unions, all hell breaks loose, as in Wisconsin.
Some issues are unavoidable: Wisconsin had to deal with its deficit immediately, that meant dealing with the unions, and the ensuing melee became a rallying point for conservatives. Supporting Gov. Walker couldn't wait until Wall Street was reformed just as the Boeing/NLRB issue can't be put on the backburner until "too-big-to-fail" is dealt with.
I would agree that the average teacher is more sympathetic than Lloyd Blankfien.
Aug '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Amazing that Rolling Stone would break an egg on the head of one of Obama's BFF.
But then we hear on Friday.
May '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
I always cringe hard when I see the word "rape" used as a metaphor for some other kind of victimization, especially something relatively impersonal like a business transaction.
Jun '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
The article says they stole money "from their own customers" and "defrauded their clients." Isn't this why we have civil courts? If someone defrauds me, I don't have to petition Congress to act, I can sue. And if they systematically defrauded enough of their customers that sounds like the makings of a class action suit.
So why does this need to be a political issue? I don't buy the comparison to pension reform, which decidedly is a political issue, an issue of how our taxpayer dollars get spent.
Oct '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
GoyoMarquez
If you read the article then you know it wasn't just Democrats it was Republicans as well. Doesn't the name Hank Paulson ring a bell? · May 13 at 4
The GOP hacks, Paulson included, are just a part of the same system, financed by Mrs. Gilly's union dues. The real problem is big government collaborators, be they Democrats or Republicans. And Mrs. Gilly's union dues are the root of the whole rotten tree.
Jun '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
The last I checked, Goldman Sachs wasn't driving the various States into insolvency. Public employee unions are, however, and they're a lot closer to local reach than Geithner, Paulson, et al.
Jan '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
I realize there are exceptions, but it seems to me that most of the domestic crises of the last thirty years were watchdog failures.
Where are the regulators here? Who's watching Goldman Sachs, and why aren't they being grilled by a committee?
Dec '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
@ Casey: The corrupt banksters on Wall St. have been pillaging the American people generally-- and the American middle class specifically-- for a generation, now. They most certainly ARE responsible to a large degree for the pitiful state of lots of things: High housing costs, foreclosures, currency debasement, the gutting of our manufacturing sector...
I am no lover of public employee unions, believe me. Which made it all the more jarring for me when I had no choice but to come to the conclusion that these people are WORSE. Public employee unions are venal. These characters on Wall St. are outright evil.
May '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Unlocking capital markets is much more important than anything that public sector union do. This goes back to Econ101...economic growth occurs with the expansion of money and credit. In modern finance, "credit" does not mean a loan at the local bank branch. Without the capital markets, the flow of capital would stall, and the economy would screech to a halt. Without public sector unions, we would be swell to excellent.
KarlUB: @ Casey: The corrupt banksters on Wall St. have been pillaging the American people generally--.......
I am no lover of public employee unions, believe me. Which made it all the more jarring for me when I had no choice but to come to the conclusion that these people are WORSE. Public employee unions are venal. These characters on Wall St. are outright evil.
Oct '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
KarlUB, you're seriously blaming Wall St for the "high" housing cost in an era of housing deflation? Besides, the bubble was fueled by foreign governments and central banks buying Franny Mae/Freddy Mac-issued mortgage-backed securities (along with private investors doing the same thing).
That's why no one ever questions the GSE's unlimited bailouts; with so much of the world's foreign exchange reserves tied up in GSE debt, not bailing them out would bring down the dollar and those currencies foolish enough to be backed by U.S. mortgages.
Oct '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
I'm not a huge fan of Goldman Sachs populism (though I can see peoples point) but I'm an even smaller fan of the idea that Wall Street is destroying the middle class (Elizabeth Warren may yet turn out to be a closet moderate, but her sucking up to the far left has done a lot of damage).
The middle class is destroying itself by not saving enough (contrary to popular myth, the world does not end if you live in a slightly older/smaller house and don't drive brand-new luxury cars straight off the lot). The lack of personal savings forces buisinesses to earn more profits to self-finance their investments, and creates a spiral of inequality.
Obsessed over maintaining an unsustainable high standard of living, people decrease savings as much as possible and start borrowing, while the lack of domestic savings eats the capital base out from under the economy. Companies struggle to pay their workers decent wages due to their need to use profits for investment, which causes the workers to save even less and borrow even more to maintain living standards further and further from their income level.
Jan '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
While I agree with the comments of J. Eager and others above, I think the conversation has gotten a bit off the point, Well, off of MY point, anyway! :)
The reason this is important, and why it must be a political issue, is that this is the sort of thing people point to when they argue for a large, intrusive regulatory state. There seems to be a belief on the part of the author that these actions would not have taken place had not the "deregulation" of the late 90's and early 00's occurred. This is not an unusual position.
I think people who make that argument miss two important points: First, these actions were still illegal! The existence of regulation was not going to prevent them. Second, there must be some responsibility on the part of the buyer. I can't feel sorry for someone who invests $100 million in something they clearly did not understand. "Self-regulation" can work just fine, but only if people do it!
On the other hand, when I'm elected dictator the Wall Street firms will go back to being partnerships where the principals' money is right in there with yours!
Feb '11
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
If housing costs are not currently at equilibrium, it is probably more to do with government policy: tax laws favoring borrowing for housing, government subsidized mortgage market (Fan/Fred), restrictions on building, rating agency cartel, inflation, etc.
Foreclosures: can't these be in many cases the responsibility of the borrowers? Do borrowers have responsibility in this? Allowing foreclosures that legally should happen to happen will help bring equilibrium to the housing market.
Currency debasement: why does Washington get a pass on this?
Manufacturing: should we enact tariffs? Why did certain auto manufacturers with plants in the US not need a bailout?
If and when Wall Street does something illegal the people responsible should be held to account for it. To the extent that Wall Street colludes unfairly with Washington it is our duty to remove Wall Street's partners in Washington. Venal or evil, public employee entitlements (along with other entitlements) will bankrupt us, if you don't agree I have some 30 year California bonds to sell you.
Sep '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
GoyoMarquez: Great article in Rolling Stone about how Goldman Sachs, with the help of the Federal Government, raped its clients, got away with it and keeps getting away with it. It's not free enterprise when the government lets you get away with fraud (my emphasis) just because you're rich and powerful.
This is the kind of stuff small government conservatives should be fighting rather than ... kindergarten teacher's pensions. ... ·
The gov't has the final power of force. Along with prosecuting those who broke laws, we should both pressure current politicians to act and replace those legislators that are an integral part of this cesspool.
Also, why can't we conservatives do both? That is, fight both public union sector bennies and Wall St. corruption. One battle is local or state and the other federal, so different sets of legislators are involved, right?
Also, this is why I don't get so-called "regulatory capture." Doesn't this concept let the party with the power of force (gov't), skate, in a way? Can't the "captured" regulatory body become "uncaptured" once the capture/corruption are for any reason unsustainable? Or are those in power too entrenched now?
Sep '10
Re: The Stuff Small Government Conservatives Should Be Fighting
Sorry, my mistake...
Edited on May 14, 2011 at 8:53am