The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
A little more than a year ago, the United Nations compound in Mazar-i-Sharif, Afghanistan was raided and set ablaze by riots that were a visceral, if deadly and inappropriate, response to the burning of a Koran by an American "pastor." Two UN workers were beheaded, others were shot to death. The blood spilled by the rioters is on their hands but also on the hands of the pastor, that despite almost universal and bipartisan condemnation, proceeded to burn the Holy book of Islam, the Qu'ran.
Terry Jones is at it again. At 5PM Eastern, Jones has vowed to not only burn the Qu'ran but also images of the Prophet Mohammed. Jones claims to be fighting for the freedom of Youcef Nadarkhani, a Christian pastor in Iran sentenced to death for apostasy. Nadarkhani converted to Christianity as a child and led devotional services in his home, and with fellow Christians in Iran.
Nadarkhani's desire for religious freedom is courageous. Extremists in the Iranian government may find Jones' irresponsible and incendiary act as reason enough to carry out the death sentence given to Nadarkhani by the court in Gilan, Iran. Jones' threats to the Iranian government may hasten the death rather than prevent it. He knows this and chooses to disregard it.
Freedom and equality require reciprocity through calm, deliberative actions and speech. If Jones' extremism and seeming desire for fame proceed as scheduled this evening, any blood spilled will be on his hands as much as the extremists who commit the crimes. He will be partnering with those who commit heinous attacks on innocent civilians, and is in fact, embodying the evil he pretends to fight.
There are people of good conscience in every country, in every faith. To save lives we look first to fundamental rights, respecting sovereignty and the power of diplomacy and passionate advocacy. Nadarkhani deserves to live, be released from prison, rejoin his wife and sons, and practice his faith. That is a freedom Jones' enjoys, with no consequence beyond the public scorn and shame he earns by jeopardizing a man of faith.
And of course the blood of each innocent person who dies when he incites a riot.
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Comments:
Oct '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Is there anything intrinsically wrong with burning a book? Of course not. Is there anything wrong with burning a book for the purpose of demonstrating your contempt for another religion? I would say yes, but on the scale of evil, it's a moral misdemeanor. Is it perhaps more wrong to murder because someone else showed contempt for your religion? I'll let you wrestle with that one.
You claim Jones actions are a 'reason' for the wrong actions taken by the Muslim radicals when it's really an excuse. If they are doing it to bring down condemnation on Jones from other westerners, then your reaction is exactly what they want. Are you partly responsible then? See how silly this becomes.
If by "Jones is as blood-thirsty as those he incites" you mean he is as guilty, or even in the ballpark, I think you might want to rethink your position.
Mar '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
The antics of Terry Jones play a useful role in our politics. They precipitate a reaction that gives lie to our elite's bromide about the religion of peace. That's worth something.
Nov '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Let me fix that for you:
To draw a causal relationship between state-sanctioned religious murder and the foolish actions of a man with ridiculous facial hair half a world away strains credulity.
Jul '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
The only people responsible are those that do the deed and those that have authority over them. Jones is so far outside this authority it is ridiculous to suggest it. I think what you really trying to say is that Jones's action maybe the EXCUSE those in Iran use to do something they probably were going to do anyway. Just like if they do kill the priest then we should use this as the EXCUSE to do some B&B to make the point that they should not do this type of thing.
Jun '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Jones actions, silly as they may be, are defended by the First Amendment. Those who would commit violence need no excuse, though the press will always willingly give them one. There can be no way not to offend Muslim extremists. The very idea of Christianity is antithetical to them. Sure we all convert in order not to offend them? Finally, where does one find a photograph of Mohammad?
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
As a Christian, I disagree with Jones' idiotic stunt. He's not a pastor in any true sense, he has no flock, he preaches no Gospel, he just goes around doing publicity stunts.
That said, the value of free speech and toleration for the views with which we agree is worth defending. So I defend them. Even when it's difficult. The problem is that some people in the world -- and by no means is this all or even anything close to most Muslims -- will respond to a Koran burning by using it as an excuse to murder, maim, commit arson, destroy property, rape and pillage.
That's on them, not on Jones for his idiocy and not on America for protecting freedom of speech and of religion.
To cater to the whims of the most violent is just a horrible path to go down.
Jun '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
There is a difference between "free" speech and "wise" speech. Can he do it? Certainly. Should he? I think he'd be a far better pastor if he spent his time ministering to his flock.
The right to burn books does not equal wisdom.
This, of course, doesn't diminish the ultimate responsibility of criminal acts from the perpetrators.
That said, I believe that Pastor Jones is an embarrassing joke.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 2:57amJun '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Elizabeth, I think you give too much credence to the authenticity of these "rioters". Those cutting off heads and shooting people in the last burning were, for the most part, criminals belonging to the Big Three in the Afghan insurgency, not regular citizens. Mazar-e Sharif is an object lesson in what happens to an area when the U.N. takes over and Coalition HUMINT moves out.
Mar '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Mothership_Greg
Don't ever underestimate the severity of the crime of ridiculous facial hair to the Moslem mind.
Nov '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Here's a heterodox thought: Jones, by gratuitiously giving offense to Muslims, may ultimately be saving lives.
Right now, the bar is rather low, in terms of what insults some Islamists deem an excuse to throw a murderous hissy fit.
Jones may be raising the bar. Henceforth, for example, ironic cartoons may be deemed comparatively less insulting. Burning a Koran blows such effete criticisms out of the water.
So, fewer events may be deemed sufficiently insulting to Islam in future to occasion a murderous hissy fit, even if the current one may be currently deemed more than ample.
I don't know whether my suggestion is true. But it might be.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 9:26amNov '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Indeed, to take this argument to its extreme, one might argue there should be a perpetual, 24/7, Koranic book burning fest, and a TV channel devoted to it.
No one can sustain a murderous hissy fit indefinitely. It eventually becomes a chore, tiring the most ardent of hearts. It's probably best to purge all the blood lust from the system all at once. Onwards the Islamic Reformation, fast-forwarded on steroids!
Is the alternative really better? To cower in terror before a mindless minority ever ready to curtail one's right to comment critically? To simper before a handful of stone-age psychopaths ready to indefinitely blackmail the free-spirited with the blood of innocents?
No, this is worse, not better. It is no one's obligation to appease terrorists. And in the long-run, it is likely to be the less pragmatic course. Bullies only take advantage of the power that cowards cede to them, confounding the hopes of the latter.
Simple put: dhimmitude is not rectitude.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 9:27amDec '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
I cannot like this post enough!
There is coming a day in the not too distant future where nobody is going to have the luxury of being naive about the aims and disposition of the totalitarian ideology that is called Islam.
It is not a religion in the way the west defines the word. It is a totalitarian way of life, not dissimilar from Fascism or Communism in scope or ends. The only differences are of a "fill in the blank" nature with respect to "why" they do the horrible things they do.
You may bury your head in the sand if you like, but remember what kind of position that leaves your hind quarters in.
Aug '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
I'm confused by the issue. I tend to disagree that [Jones] "will be partnering with those who commit heinous attacks on innocent civilians, and is in fact, embodying the evil he pretends to fight." He'll be burning a book. Other people will be shooting people and cutting off heads. My guess is that he doesn't want this to happen. I don't think this type of equivalence is reasonable. I don't think Theo Van Gogh really "brought it on himself" by making a movie. I don't think Jyllands-Posten was really responsible for the subsequent riots. I'm not saying these arguments are necessarily the outcome of Elizabeth's line of reasoning, but it seems that way.
There is a tension between the way the world is and the way we think the world should be. Elizabeth very right to highlight this tension. There are lot s of things we'd like to do but shouldn't do. Not because the things themselves are wrong, but because of the way the world is. I'm not saying we want to burn Korans. But I am saying, don't burn Korans.
Oct '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
This is ultimately a free-agency issue. Elizabeth implies Jones is at fault because he chooses to incite the Muslims. Apparently the Muslims can't choose to not react. They're simple third-world folk who, when Jones pushes their button, automatically fire a gun that kills someone. So really (to extend her thinking), it might as well be Jones firing the gun.
I couldn't disagree more. Jones bears very little responsibility for their actions. Perhaps none. It's arguable.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 3:36pmOct '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Aodhan: Here's a heterodox thought: Jones, by gratuitiously giving offense to Muslims, may ultimately besaving lives.
Right now, the bar is rather low, in terms of what insults some Islamists deem an excuse to throw a murderous hissy fit.
Jones may be raising the bar. Henceforth, for example, ironic cartoons may be deemedcomparativelyless insulting. Burning a Koran blows such effete criticisms out of the water.
So,fewerevents may be deemed sufficiently insulting to Islam in future to occasion a murderous hissy fit, even if the currentonemay be currently deemed more than ample.
I don't know whether my suggestion is true. But it might be.
Elizabeth, I'd like to hear your response to the above. I wanted to trim it down to essentials, but this post and his subsequent one should be read in their entirety. Really, these 2 comments should be a free-standing post. It's the sort of nuanced thinking that Liberals are always clamoring for. It might even be true! And it will certainly cause heads to explode, which is particularly wonderful.
Nov '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
CoolHand
I cannot like this post enough!
There is coming a day in the not too distant future where nobody is going to have the luxury of being naive about the aims and disposition of the totalitarian ideology that is called Islam.
It is not a religion in the way the west defines the word. It is a totalitarian way of life, not dissimilar from Fascism or Communism in scope or ends. The only differences are of a "fill in the blank" nature with respect to "why" they do the horrible things they do.
You may bury your head in the sand if you like, but remember what kind of position that leaves your hind quarters in. · 7 hours ago
Are all those Muslims that al-Qaida blows up totalitarians, too? How about Ahmadis?
Islamism is not Islam, and neither Islam nor Islamism is monolithic. That's why we have an administration that is pretending the Muslim Brotherhood is "moderate" - because they don't blow things up like al-Qaida does.
Nov '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
@Elizabeth. If Muslims threaten riot if women speak on television, do women who speak on television have blood on their hands (along with the Islamic killers)? WRAA (with respect and affection) your post seems to be a step forward along that journey.
Oct '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Aodhan: Indeed, to take this argument to its extreme, one might argue there should be a perpetual, 24/7, Koranic book burning fest, and a TV channel devoted to it.
No one can sustain a murderous hissy fit indefinitely. It eventually becomes a chore, tiring the most ardent of hearts. It's probably best to purge all the blood lust from the system all at once. Onwards the Islamic Reformation, fast-forwarded on steroids!
Let’s focus this on a few specific grievances … let’s burn a Koran every time a girl is denied equal access to education or is forced into marriage, a thousand Korans for a so-called ‘honor’ killing. Let’s burn a thousand Korans when a Christian church is attacked or Christian worship is repressed. Eventually the radicals will get the message that two can play this game.
May '11
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Of course Mr. Jones is not equally responsible for the deaths of innocent people. Still, when one makes a choice as to whether to do an act (assuming the act is not intrinsically evil), one normally weighs the foreseeable good consequences against the foreseeable bad consequences. Here the foreseeable good consequences are . . . ? The foreseeable bad consequences are that Christians in the Middle East get killed.
Dec '10
Re: The Qu'ran, Kool Aid and a modern Jim Jones
Find me a sect of Islam that doesn't treat their women like cattle and seek the conquest of the whole Earth, and then we shall have a discussion about moderates and nuance.
Until then, the differences are ephemera used to obfuscate the uncomfortable nature of the problem.
I do not hate rank and file Muslims, but if my choices are to submit or to fight, I will choose fight every time, regardless of how "nice" those rank and file folks may be.
As I said before, in many conflicts, one cannot have the luxury of not picking a side, nor does one always get to define the sides as we'd like.
Right now, it is shaping up as all of Islam VS all of the West (that can muster a response). What they do to each other is none of my concern, with respect to this particular argument at least.
Remember their litany of allegiance: I against my brother, my brother and I against our cousins, our family against our tribe, our tribe against all other tribes, Shia against Sunni, Islam against the world.
Don't think for a second that they don't mean it.