The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Diane Ellis, Ed. ·
Dec 13, 2011 at 5:39pm
So it's come to this. Republican primary voters now have their choice between a self-professed "moderate progressive" and a "realpolitik Wilsonian." But which is which?
And more importantly, which appellation is the lesser of two evils?
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Dec '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
As soon as I stop retching, I'm sending money to Rick Perry.
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
The thing that bothers me about the first video is not that I think that Romney is a progressive. It's that i think he says whatever he thinks he needs to to get elected. That he hasn't had more success with that game is even more frightening, I suppose.
As for the second, that seems like your basic Newt.
Occupy Mitch Daniels' lawn!
Jul '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
[Edited for Code of Conduct]
Newt is not Wilsonian in his policies in the least.
Link
Link
Link.
[Edited for Code of Conduct.]
Edited on Dec 13, 2011 at 6:21pmSep '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Someone mentioned Woodrow Wilson and Newt Gingrich in the same sentence recently but I can't recall exactly who.
Jun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Gamgee for President.
Oh, I'm sorry, Paul Ryan for President.
Can I write in Paul Ryan on the ballot, or should I just scream it out when I go to the polls like a crazy bearded man?
Oct '11
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
I'm glad we can count on Ricochet members to actually listen to these clips, because the title of the second one (and therefore half the title of your post, Diane) is quite misleading. If you listen, Romney's claim to being a progressive is completely central to his statement; no mistake there. Newt's self-description as a "realpolitik Wilsonian" is more of a conversational aside, set within the context of a very pro-freedom foreign policy. He even precedes the appellation with the phrase "in that context".
Had me going there for a minute. Go Newt; this sounds pretty positive to me.
Apr '11
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Beck has been hammering Newt on this very topic. He posits Newt is cut from the same cloth as the Roosevelts and Wilson.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-can-hardly-believe-that-gingrich-actually-calls-himself-a-realpolitik-wilsonian/
Jun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7Lqwl3Vzk&feature=related
Jun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
I think Gingrich uses "Wilsonian" as shorthand for the kind of sentiment expressed in JFK's inaugural address--America, the bulwark and defender of Freedom around the World. That's an overly ambitious notion today, but in 1961, when JFK expressed it, we were in the middle of a huge ideological showdown, and we already had a big nuclear target on our backs anyway, so what the heck? Today, it doesn't play quite so well. Back then, in for penny, in for a pound. But Vietnam came, and we decided we weren't really in for a pound. The American brand suffered. I don't expect Newt wants to bring back 1961, but he maybe likes the level of resolve we had then. At least we knew who we were.
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Barfly: I'm glad we can count on Ricochet members to actually listen to these clips, because the title of the second one (and therefore half the title of your post, Diane) is quite misleading. If you listen, Romney's claim to being a progressive is completely central to his statement; no mistake there. Newt's self-description as a "realpolitik Wilsonian" is more of a conversational aside, set within the context of a very pro-freedom foreign policy. He even precedes the appellation with the phrase "in that context".
Had me going there for a minute. Go Newt; this sounds pretty positive to me. · Dec 13 at 6:03pm
I'm with Barfly.
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
A further thought:
Newt doesn't say a word here--not one single word--that couldn't have come from the mouth of Ronald Reagan. (Newt uses "realpolitick" to modify "Wilsonian." He's saying American foreign policy should be both idealistic and realistic. As indeed it should.)
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Peter Robinson: A further thought:
Newt doesn't say a word here--not one single word--that couldn't have come from the mouth of Ronald Reagan. (Newt uses "realpolitick" to modify "Wilsonian." He's saying American foreign policy should be both idealistic and realistic. As indeed it should.) · Dec 13 at 6:22pm
These two videos represent the latest nuggets of oppo that circulated among the right-of-center blogosphere today. I imagine that second clip will be shortened to the 2 second clip in which Newt identifies himself as a "realpolitick Wilsonian" and coupled with the video found here in which Newt praises FDR as "in my judgment, the greatest president of the 20th century."
I'm grateful for folks like Michael Tee who will take the time to point out what a bunch of phooey these soundbites are, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry and, later on, Obama, will be playing these up in 30 second ads.
Edited on Dec 13, 2011 at 8:02pmJun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Re: FDR
I'm not sure it's true, but some say, bad as FDR was, in those rough times the only popular alternative (to FDR) was some form of communism. Maybe the historians can weigh in.
Jul '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
etoiledunord: Re: FDR
I'm not sure it's true, but some say, bad as FDR was, in those rough times the only popular alternative (to FDR) was some form of communism. Maybe the historians can weigh in. · Dec 13 at 6:47pm
My quick read on this is that Newt thinks that FDR was an effective executive that used his power to the limits (and in some cases beyond) of the Constitutional mandate.
My thinking is that Newt Gingrich is a fan of Alexander Hamilton (rather than Madison et al.) in that he favors a strong executive. This is in stark contrast in how he coerced Clinton into bending to his will at the expense of his own popularity with the media and his contemporaries.
Edited on Dec 13, 2011 at 6:55pmSep '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
No one will ever accuse Newt Gingrich of being Calvin Coolidge and if he were asked the question: are you a fan of Woodrow Wilson? he would hold court for the better part of an hour without actually answering the question.
And I stand by my prediction of his calling for a League of Nations III. Its like the Justice League of America, but with less cape and more capers.
Sep '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
And I'd like to register my continuing distaste for the word "values". I implore the Publius Fellowship winner to fight the good fight.
Nov '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
etoiledunord: Re: FDR
I'm not sure it's true, but some say, bad as FDR was, in those rough times the only popular alternative (to FDR) was some form of communism. Maybe the historians can weigh in. · Dec 13 at 6:47pm
Check out some of FDR's speeches. They read like they were drafted by someone at Gosplan.
Jun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Don't forget that Churchill said of Stanley Baldwin that he was the greatest politician of his lifetime. He admired Baldwin for the ability to get a lot done and for his ability to outsmart so many of his opponents.
I don't know that Newt is saying the he wants to do the same things as FDR but he definitely wants to try to be as effective, I'm sure. But, that would be hard to do unless he gets a huge majority in both houses of Congress.
Jun '10
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Regarding Mitt, a small quibble: He does not say his is a progressive (a noun) -- he says he is progressive (an adjective). Big difference. Also, the term progressive wasn't used by liberals in the 1990s except by the very far left-wingers. That term had a bad odor for liberals for a long time since the huge embarrassing defeat of the Progressive Party in the 1948 election. Mitt's use of the adjective is no more incriminating than Disraeli's or other people in the 20th Century.
We only disdain the term progressive nowadays because leftists like Hilary and Obama started using it in a positive way just in the last decade or so.
Apr '11
Re: The "Moderate Progressive" Versus the "Realpolitik Wilsonian"
Larry Koler: Regarding Mitt, a small quibble: He does not say his is a progressive (a noun) -- he says he is progressive (an adjective). Big difference. Also, the term progressive wasn't used by liberals in the 1990s except by the very far left-wingers. That term had a bad odor for liberals for a long time since the huge embarrassing defeat of the Progressive Party in the 1948 election. Mitt's use of the adjective is no more incriminating than Disraeli's or other people in the 20th Century.
We only disdain the term progressive nowadays because leftists like Hilary and Obama started using it in a positive way just in the last decade or so. ·
Right. He was saying that he didn't hate gays. This was the clearly understood meaning at the time. It's very similar to his stuff this cycle about how he doesn't hate Mexicans despite having spent his political life supporting integration and enforcement.
Newt modifies his Wilson support, but his Teddy Roosevelt support is much less nuanced, and every bit as progressive. In the post Clinton and pre-LBJ sense.