The Madness Isn't Limited to March
March Madness kicks off in earnest tomorrow (as someone with a lot of ties to USC, I'm pretending the play-in round didn't happen). Like many of you here, I'll be transfixed for the next few weeks. But I'll also be trying to suppress a lingering thought that dogs me at this time every year: college basketball doesn't make much sense.
By that I mean that the NCAA essentially serves as the minor leagues for a group of athletes that will be phenomenally well paid if they have the chance to turn pro (ditto college football). And unlike the curmudgeons, I don't begrudge them that. Professional athletes make a lot of money because they generate a lot of value for their teams. The only difference at the college level is that they don't see a cut. Is it any surprise, then, that an increasing number of players opt for the draft rather than for finishing their degree?
I love college hoops and wouldn't trade this time of year for anything. And I also value education enough to realize that many of these players are shorting themselves by turning pro prematurely. But it's an inevitable byproduct of a system where we've made it virtually impossible to apprentice for professional sports without going through the university system. In an ideal world, those endeavors would be decoupled. In the one we have, we'll continue to decry the athletes who make a rational choice in an irrational system.
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Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
You know what's the flipside of that? College ball isn't what it once was, because rarely do you get the best players beyond their 19th or 20th birthday, so the team play and the skill level isn’t as amazing as it was back with say, Dean Smith’s teams like Jordan’s, John Thompson’s Hoyas, Bobby Knight’s Hoosiers, etc. The skill level among big men has particularly suffered.
While this creates a really fun randomizing effect on the tournament, you almost get the sense that it's too random, with the gap between, say, a 3 seed and a 12 seed not being all that great a lot of the time. Makes for a lot of upsets, but the upsets often aren't that "upsetting," if you see what I mean.
I don't think we're going to see an expansion of the D-League (or an NFL minor league now that NFL Europe folded) any time soon, though, so, as you say, what can you do?
Jun '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Bill Walsh: ...the team play and the skill level isn’t as amazing as it was back with say, Dean Smith’s teams like Jordan’s, John Thompson’s Hoyas, Bobby Knight’s Hoosiers, etc. The skill level among big men has particularly suffered.
While this creates a really fun randomizing effect on the tournament, you almost get the sense that it's too random... · Mar 16 at 11:05pm
As a diehard UCLA Bruin fan I know all too well what it does to a team when the talented players leave early for the NBA. It becomes a challenge for scouts and coaches not to necessarily look for the next Jordans or Reggie Millers but to find talent that can be molded over time to perform and then really peak in their junior or senior year. But given all that the tournament is still worth watching for the intensity and the strategy which is often missing in the NBA. So, many games are burned into one's memory like UCLA's come-from-behind victory over Gonzaga with just seconds to go and Tyus Edney's 4.8 second end-to-end sprint to beat Missouri in 1995. Unforgettable.
Edited on Mar 16, 2011 at 11:54pmDec '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
What prevents them from finishing their degree after they retire from sports?
They'd have plenty of time, and all the money they need to pay for it.
Oct '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I'm all for raising the NBA age limit to 20 or 21. For those teenagers who want to start earning money playing hoops, I advise them to join the D-League or go to Europe or China.
Jul '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I'm not a big follower of sports in general, but at this stage, it seems that college education and college sports strive for completely divergent goals. From the little I've read, it seems that popular college sports are cash cows for "sports schools" and many influential alumni have sentimental attachments to college sports teams that inform their donations to the university at large.
I'm going to put this out there as someone almost completely ignorant on the topic, but wouldn't it be better for schools to officially decouple academics from the highest levels of varsity sports? I'm envisioning something along the lines of the best schools turning their basketball or football programs into minor league teams that are sponsored by the school, but where players are not required to be matriculating students at the school and might even be paid a salary (in lieu of scholarships) if they choose not to matriculate. Thoughts?
Jun '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I don't know. If an 18-year-old can serve his country in the military why should he be restricted from starting a career in the NBA? Doesn't individual liberty trump the quality of collegiate athletics or even an individual's supposed personal obligation to attend college? Should every young man be encouraged to go to college? Absolutely. But where is it written that a talented athlete must go to college at all? Given that no one is compelled by law to attend college, it sounds like a form of discrimination to me - if you're a talented athlete you must go to college? Really? If the young man comes from a desperately poor family why shouldn't he have the right to grab an NBA opportunity if he's got the talent? More power to him. For the most part, an 18-year-old being looked at for the NBA has got to be a pretty remarkable player. Those players are extremely rare. The NCAA will survive.
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Humza Ahmad:
I'm going to put this out there as someone almost completely ignorant on the topic, but wouldn't it be better for schools to officially decouple academics from the highest levels of varsity sports? I'm envisioning something along the lines of the best schools turning their basketball or football programs into minor league teams that are sponsored by the school, but where players are not required to be matriculating students at the school and might even be paid a salary (in lieu of scholarships) if they choose not to matriculate. Thoughts?
That's not a bad idea, but it would likely turn into a PR nightmare about universities "exploiting" poor inner city black kids, rather than "offering" them an education.
And if the players unionized like they do in the pros... Well, just imagine having two unions to deal with every year.
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Brian Watt
But given all that the tournament is still worth watching for the intensity and the strategy which is often missing in the NBA. · Mar 16 at 11:51pm
Edited on Mar 16 at 11:54 pm
Please...What is it with college sports fans and the need to validate their interest by bashing the pros?
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Brian Watt
Given that no one is compelled by law to attend college, it sounds like a form of discrimination to me
I agree, especially considering that most college football and basketball players would not choose to go to college if it were not for their sports careers anyhow.
Aaron Miller
Humza Ahmad: wouldn't it be better for schools to officially decouple academics from sports?
That's not a bad idea, but it would likely turn into a PR nightmare
I'm all for giving up the facade of amateurism in college sports. Aside from everything already mentioned, it's an insult to those paying out of pocket to get an education while the university funds someone who's there to kill time playing sports and has little desire for the university education.
That being said, I'm all for the college teams finding a way to go 'semi-pro'. Why not give the athletes a choice? Let those who want to play on a scholarship and get an education do so, and let those that just want to play sports for 1-4 years receive a paycheck.
Oct '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
The main problem is that the NBA drafts for "potential" of players, rather than their current ability level. Now the draft has become a risk management tool and portfolio balancing, rather than evaluating current skill level and capability.
I'm for deregulation in all industries. Take off the 1 year requirement. Should Dwight Howard or LeBron James go to college for 1 or 3 years? Heck no.
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I see this as a symptom, not a cause. The problem with the NBA is that the team management stinks for over half the teams in the league. This ranges from over drafting based on potential to paying mediocre players twice as much as they're worth. Because of this, the league is very top-heavy, which makes for an exciting playoffs, but leaves most of the same teams perpetually stuck in the mud at the bottom.
Jun '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Kofola
Brian Watt
But given all that the tournament is still worth watching for the intensity and the strategy which is often missing in the NBA. · Mar 16 at 11:51pm
Edited on Mar 16 at 11:54 pm
Please...What is it with college sports fans and the need to validate their interest by bashing the pros? · Mar 17 at 9:14am
Not bashing the pros at all. I enjoy watching the NBA. But there's a level of intensity, especially in rivalry games and the NCAA Tournament that you don't see in the pros when student sections are going nuts and the commentators have to shout into their microphones just to be heard. You get that in the final games of the NBA championship...in college you tend to get that all season. Both games are very enjoyable to watch and the talent at the pro level is phenomenal...but I think the game at the college level is faster (even with the 35 second clock), more of team sport and not so reliant on one or two individuals making 40+ points and carrying the game on their shoulders. It's just a different style of play.
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
The semi-pro argument only works for the popular television sports, like football and basketball. I do not know the numbers, but I would guess this accounts for maybe 20% of college athletes at best. We know because of Title IX, there should theoretically be 50% of the athletes that are women. What about women athletes? What about soccer, swimming, golf, lacrosse and others?
I hear a lot of complaint about the diminished level of talent in NCAA mens basketball, but the games are as popular as ever. NCAA football is off the charts popular (and may be all we have come fall).
The NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL all have different systems for developing players. I say leave them to it, and let the market sort out what does and does not work.
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I remember the day when a football player associated with the Washington Redskins announced that he was learning to read. He was a graduate of Oklahoma State University. My tax dollars at work!
May '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Brian Watt
Not bashing the pros at all.
Well, I'll accept that this isn't your intent (although there are many college fans who do spend inordinate amount of time bashing the NBA or NFL).
However, I'm not really buying that the major college rivalries are any more intense than the major NBA rivalries just because the arena is filled with half-drunken college kids a step away from a soccer riot (although perhaps I'm biased, because I have to spend time around these kids every day while they're pretending to get an education). Watch Boston fans whenever LA's in town or go and ask any Phoenix sun fan what they think of the San Antonio Spurs.
I agree that the styles are different, but this is a myth that the NBA is stuck with, which really isn't true, at least for most of the good teams. It's certainly true for the Miami Heat, but teams such as Boston, San Antonio, LA Lakers are very well rounded and dependent on solid team play both defensively and offensively.
Edited on Mar 17, 2011 at 3:53pmFeb '11
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
I have mixed feelings about the NCAA. I love to watch but the fundamental unfairness of the system really irks me. Consider the hypocrisy of the recent Ohio St football controversy. Several players were "caught" selling some memorabilia - an NCAA infraction despite the fact that the items were theirs. they received heavy suspensions and were forced to repay the proceeds, which were relatively meager compared to what they probably could have sold for in the open market. The players were also forced by the sanctimonious disciplinarians to make sheepish public apologies. Meanwhile the Big 10 (Ohio St's conference) is reportedly in the midst of a tv contract negotiation that would earn it $460million. And how many of these kids really get the education that is supposed to be their reward for helping to generate such revenues. They are often recruited with no consideration for their academic readiness.
Oct '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
there are 1.5 mil active personnel in the military and 1.5 mil reserves.
the NBA has only about 360 active players during the season.
in the military, the standards are set low so almost anybody can join. and most people would rather do something else than join the army.
but in the NBA, it is the reverse. almost all basketball players around the world want to join the NBA. but the NBA doesn't want and will reject 99.9% of these aspirants. only the best should even consider applying.
the nba is a private business. they need to do what is in their best interest to improve the quality of the business and games.
nobody is being denied employment here. the players can always go to europe, asia or join the D-League in the US.
Jun '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
John Marzan
there are 1.5 mil active personnel in the military and 1.5 mil reserves.
the NBA has only about 360 active players during the season.
in the military, the standards are set low so almost anybody can join. and most people would rather do something else than join the army. · Mar 17 at 8:10pm
All of this is quite fascinating and has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making - that a talented 18-year-old has every right to take a job in the NBA if one is offered to him and that restrictions on that right by collegiate athletics or any other body would essentially be arbitrary, unfair and discriminatory. 18-year-olds are the target of recruitment campaigns by the military, so it seems a bit feudal that they can be encouraged to train and possibly die for their country but if they have the athletic talent to become a pro athlete somehow that avenue should be cut off for them.
My remarks have nothing to do with the NBA as a private enterprise...something that I endorse. My comments are focused on 18-year old Americans' individual rights.
Jun '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
John - The discussion point has nothing to do with the hiring practices of the NBA. No one is making the claim that the NBA is somehow being unfair or discriminatory. This is completely off-topic.
What we are discussing is whether collegiate athletics or some other governing body can create a rule that restricts an 18-year-old's ability to sign on with an NBA team. There is no law in this country that mandates that 18-year-olds must go to college. There is no law that can restrict a college athlete from leaving college to pursue a career in the NBA. The NCAA could not enforce enforce such a rule. The NBA could make a decision not to hire anyone under the age of 22 or 21 but why in the world would they do that? That would be just poor business and not terribly capitalist of them. As a UCLA fan I could gripe about losing star players...but the free market capitalist in me wins every time. If Kevin Love, Baron Davis, and Russell Westbrook want to pursue a career in the NBA and not graduate more power to 'em!
Jul '10
Re: The Madness Isn't Limited to March
Brian Watt
All of this is quite fascinating and has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making - that a talented 18-year-old has every right to take a job in the NBA if one is offered to him and that restrictions on that right by collegiate athletics or any other body would essentially be arbitrary, unfair and discriminatory. 18-year-olds are the target of recruitment campaigns by the military, so it seems a bit feudal that they can be encouraged to train and possibly die for their country but if they have the athletic talent to become a pro athlete somehow that avenue should be cut off for them.
My remarks have nothing to do with the NBA as a private enterprise...something that I endorse. My comments are focused on 18-year old Americans' individual rights. · Mar 17 at 9:54pm
To be fair Brian, the kinds of restrictions John mentioned were historically imposed by the NBA, NFL, etc.
BTW, congrats on the UCLA win tonight. Wish my boys would've played the first 35 minutes like they played the last five.