230px-Fredginger

Reason's Jesse Walker sent out a link this morning to this Wikipedia entry for David Bowie's album Lodger. It includes the line:

Indifferently received by critics on its initial release, it is now widely considered one of Bowie's most underrated albums.

"What does it mean to be "widely considered" one of the "most underrated"?" he asked. It reminded me of a piece I read yesterday headlined "11 Early Scathing Reviews of Works Now Considered Masterpieces."

We learn what some early critics said of Whitman's Leaves of Grass, Beethoven's No. 9 in D Minor, Bizet's Carmen, Melville's Moby-Dick, Austen's Pride and Prejudice, Bronte's Wuthering Heights, Joyce's Ulysses, Orwell's Animal Farm, Keats' Endymion and all of the Impressionists  during the 19th century. The most shocking?

11. Fred Astaire (1899 – 1987)

Modern Status: “…like Bach, who in his time had a great concentration of ability, essence, knowledge, a spread of music…Astaire has that same concentration of genius.” –Balanchine
*
“…simply the greatest, most imaginative dancer of our time.” –Nureyev
*
“What do dancers think of Fred Astaire? It’s no secret. We hate him. He gives us a complex because he’s too perfect. His perfection is an absurdity. It’s too hard to face.” –Baryshnikov

Early Reaction: “Can’t act. Can’t sing. Slightly bald. Can dance a little.” –MGM Testing Director’s response to Astaire’s first screen test

I'm curious what musicians, actors, dancers, books, artwork, albums, etc. are criminally underrated or will go from being dismissed to considered masterpieces. My vote is on The Last Action Hero. Widely panned by critics and nominated for six Golden Raspberry Awards, it's my view that the film was just too much truth for Hollywood and its audiences to handle. They'll come around some day.

Comments:


Fricosis Guy
Joined
Jun '11
Fricosis Guy

Unbreakable is my nomination.

I was disappointed by Last Action Hero for much the same reason as Misthiocracy.  IMO, the jokiness in the early scenes was appropriate, but should have ramped down as the story became more serious.  I guess this is another example where second-rate script work let a movie down.

Franco
Joined
Sep '10
Franco

As an artist, you can be sophisticated and try to make cogent points, but to expect your audience - like movie-goers, who are expecting some level of entertainment to catch on and all see it is simply a recipe for failure.

Anyone who Arnold Swarzenegger has , in effect, trained\ to go to his movies is expecting an escape, not a parody, which is different. 

Now in the age of DVDs and netfix etc., there are gems out there which missed the mainstream mark for various reasons that can be marketed properly and find the right audience. They number in the tens of thousands.

There will always be artists who are ahead of the curve and become famous when they are dead. I really don't know who's fault that is, but if the artist has misjudged the zeitgeist and is lamenting that people don't get him - it's stupid.

Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

Fricosis Guy: Unbreakable is my nomination.

I was disappointed by Last Action Hero for much the same reason as Misthiocracy.  IMO, the jokiness in the early scenes was appropriate, but should have ramped down as the story became more serious.  I guess this is another example where second-rate script work let a movie down. · 5 minutes ago

Yes, the original screenplay was infinitely better. There's been a lot written about how the rewrite of the screenplay was the first sign that the movie would fail.

Misthiocracy
Joined
Aug '10
Misthiocracy

KC Mulville: The curiosity with Mollie's post is that the Bowie album was already out there. The music itself didn't change ... only our reaction to it.

And, it isn't just that one guy was cranky that day and missed an obvious masterpiece. There are some movies and music that were widely disliked at the time, and the public came around. 

It makes a big difference what the piece is being compared to at the time.

Say someone makes a good western, but they release it at a time when there have been a lot of good westerns made recently, so the movie gets lukewarm reviews by comparison. Later on, when people are able to judge the movie on its own merits, the judgement might be more favourable.

I remember back in my university film class, I was really proud of my final film. It was a snowboard movie that was remarkably difficult to make. To get some shots I operated the camera while also skiing ... backwards!

However, there was no story, so I only got a C on it. The professor was comparing it to the other students' films which were actual stories. Unavoidable, really.

Edited on April 24, 2012 at 5:45pm

Joined
Apr '11
D.B. Little

Dave Sim's Cerebus, the only graphic novel using War and Peace as a model and with a talking cartoon aardvark to boot. That takes talent and was well received by those during the 1980's when comics (tried, at least) to grow up until he came out as a conservative in Canada.

None of that matters, though, as once Gerhard came on to work for him, it became as well as being a bitterly humorous swipe at everything from politics and religion and with a pathos I don't think many people have credited as Sim's best talent (of many), it also turning into a feast of lucious artwork as well.

It was strange, however, that while Sim had always wanted to raise the bar in comic books, he still felt himself that that bar was so low that he was always so apologetic about being in the industry that I had to tell him that I had always agreed with him that, as a media, comics were virtually untapped even still and it was him who had proven it, to  me, being the only comic book I had read since I was nine years old.

EJHill
Joined
May '10
EJHill
Misthiocracy: It makes a big difference what the piece is being compared to at the time.

Which is why the losers of the 1939 Academy Award for Best Picture are better than the winners for many decades.

  • Dark Victory
  • Goodbye, Mr. Chips
  • Love Affair
  • Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
  • Ninotchka
  • Of Mice and Men
  • Stagecoach
  • The Wizard of Oz
  • Wuthering Heights
Edited on April 24, 2012 at 5:47pm
Severely Ltd.
Joined
Oct '10
Severely Ltd.

I think all the elements for a classic television series was there in Firefly if it had been allowed to develop. I'm not sure what the critics were saying at the time, I saw it later on DVD.

DocJay
Joined
Jul '11
DocJay

My nominee this year is John Carter from Earth,  I thoroughly enjoyed it.


Joined
Dec '11
Guruforhire

And yet in 25 years, Rocky Horror will still be played in theaters.....

EJHill
Joined
May '10
EJHill
DocJay: My nominee this year is John Carter from Earth,  I thoroughly enjoyed it. · 3 minutes ago

The folks inside Disney wish there more like you. That was one massive write down and sure to be felt across the Empire.

Misthiocracy
Joined
Aug '10
Misthiocracy
Guruforhire: And yet in 25 years, Rocky Horror will still be played in theaters.....

Right, because Rocky Horror is an incredibly fun movie when seen in a theatre.  

It's more painful than a dentist appointment when seen in the privacy of your own home, on DVD.

It's not the movie, it's the experience.

It's like the difference between a concert and karaoke.

The most popular karaoke songs are not the best songs, artistically-speaking. In fact, listening to someone butcher a good song at a karaoke bar is painful, but listening to them sing Margaritaville or The Medley from Grease is fun.

Misthiocracy
Joined
Aug '10
Misthiocracy

EJHill

DocJay: My nominee this year is John Carter from Earth,  I thoroughly enjoyed it.

The folks inside Disney wish there more like you. That was onemassivewrite down and sure to be felt across the Empire.

Really, really poor marketing.

They didn't emphasize that a) it was Mars and b) he's a Civil War veteran.

The marketing was "it's a movie about half-naked people on a desert planet with a bunch of aliens."  That's a movie that we've already seen before. Dune. Riddick. Stargate. The Fifth Element. Cowboys & Aliens. Star Wars, episodes one, two, four, AND six!  Etc...

However, describe it as, "a Confederate veteran of the Civil War is transported to Mars, where he discovers that it's not only inhabited but also at war," and it suddenly becomes way more interesting.

Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

We recently watched the documentary Best Worst Movie, about the surprise reception -- decades after it first failed -- of Troll 2. Great documentary.

Misthiocracy
Joined
Aug '10
Misthiocracy
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: We recently watched the documentary Best Worst Movie, about the surprise reception -- decades after it first failed -- of Troll 2. Great documentary.

Anvil! The Story of Anvil, is another great documentary along the same lines, about a hard-working 80s hair metal band that never got huge but never gave up.

Basil Fawlty
Joined
Mar '11
Basil Fawlty

I've always been curious about The Big Bus (1976) and Airplane! (1980).  The former disaster parody sank without a trace upon its release but the latter regularly shows up at the top of lists of great comedy movies.  I think they're equally funny and I'm not sure whether to attribute their varied fates to marketing, changes in viewer preferences or an entirely different kind of cause, altogether.

Nathaniel Wright
Joined
Aug '10
Nathaniel Wright

Thing is...if John Carter had the box office of Hunger Games, it still would have been a flop.  It needed $700 million in box office to break even.  It's advertising budget was massive, and misspent. 

I too liked it as a film...as an investor?  Not so much.

As for underrated actors?

Keanu Reeves.

He has done nothing except entertain me for the past two decades.  From Parenthood to The Matrix, from Constantine to The Replacements, I find his film choices excellent and I enjoy his performances better than those who critique him.

Douglas
Joined
Mar '11
Douglas

Rolling Stone magazine deserves it's very own hall of shame for some stupid judgements in the past. When Led Zeppelin hit the scene, RS dismissed them as inferior and Not Serious Enough. Their early album reviews got two stars. Years later, RS devoted a special issue to Led Zep, the theme more or less being "Boy, were WE wrong".

Stephen King's books were the same way. Lit critics hated and mocked him. And now he's Stephen King.

Who is still underrated today? Rush (the band) still doesn't get the respect they deserve from the music establishment (they're still not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), although there's a lot of respect from their peers and some important cultural movers and shakers (Stephen Colbert famously had them on his show). Everyone seems to know Rush is cool except the RARHOF and Rolling Stone (again, there you go).

And this last one... I'm gonna take a beating for this... is William Shatner. A much better actor than he gets credit for. Some of his Kirk performances were really, really good. And the guy did get his start in Shakespeare, after all.

Misthiocracy
Joined
Aug '10
Misthiocracy
Basil Fawlty: I've always been curious aboutThe Big Bus (1976) andAirplane!(1980).  The former disaster parody sank without a trace upon its release but the latter regularly shows up at the top of lists of great comedy movies.  I think they're equally funny and I'm not sure whether to attribute their varied fates to marketing, changes in viewer preferences or an entirely different kind of cause, altogether. 

I've added The Big Bus to my queue at Zip.ca (Canadian Netflix)!  

Colin B Lane
Joined
Jun '11
Colin B Lane

Could we say that the Barack Obama Show is the converse phenomenon?


Joined
Dec '11
Guruforhire

Misthiocracy

Guruforhire: And yet in 25 years, Rocky Horror will still be played in theaters.....

Right, because Rocky Horror is an incredibly fun moviewhen seen in a theatre.  

It's more painful than a dentist appointment when seen in the privacy of your own home, on DVD.

It's not the movie, it's the experience.

It's like the difference between a concert and karaoke.

The most popular karaoke songs are not the best songs, artistically-speaking. In fact, listening to someone butcher a goodsong at a karaoke bar is painful, but listening to them sing Margaritaville or The Medley from Grease is fun. · 4 hours ago

Yeah, but its SUCCESSFUL, and creates a common frame of reference to long standing national subculture.  At this point multiple generations have run around nearly naked in a theater.  There will always be gone with the wind, casablanca and the godfather and there will always be rocky horror.  I dispute the karaoke thing.  Its the difference between a crooner, and a punk rocker.  Its awesome because its terrible, and should only be listened to while wasted and elbowing someone in the face.


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