The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
I commend to you this Haaretz interview with Mideast analyst David Makovsky, whom I had the privilege of working beside and learning from years ago at the Washington Institute. I recall his being right about everything, and gracious besides.
The prevailing view of the Israeli-Palestinian talks is that they are doomed because the Palestinian side is not unified. I've been arguing for a while that that is exactly the reason why these talks have a chance of success. Hamas, which I think of as the Arafat factor, is outside the process, and that is an essential positive. Makovsky makes the same point:
Some are skeptical that any agreement will be effective with the current rift of the Palestinian leadership.
I tend to believe that Hamas will try to spoil from the inside too, and I’ve discussed this with Palestinian officials in Ramallah who will agree with me, but there is a huge difference between what happened in the 90’s and what is happening today. With Arafat, you felt that he was playing a double game with a green light to terror, and that really destroyed confidence on the Israeli side.
I think now we don’t have any of that ambiguity with Abu Mazen [Abbas] because no one sees him like Arafat. Abbas and Hamas are bitter rivals, nobody believes there’s any green light for terror - quite the opposite - there’s excellent security cooperation between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, Abbas and Fayad are determined to continue it. The amount of violence has sharply dropped.
I think most Israelis are saying that if there’s 100 percent effort against the terrorists, there might not always be 100 percent results, but as long as there’s no double game, we will not allow rejectionists to explode the chance for peace.
I posted recently that Hamas is under a great deal of pressure, despite the financial and military support it receives from Iran. This state of affairs, which stems in part from Abbas's bracingly direct efforts of late to prevent Hamas violence, ratchets up the short-term danger of terrorist attempts but also lays bare the great gulf between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. Indeed, Hamas has just directly threatened the PA:
In a harshly worded announcement, the Islamist group declared that "our patience [with the PA] will soon run out" and that they would not remain silent for long, Israel Radio reported.
"You know that the hands that have reached the heart of the occupier can reach you too," Hamas warned, referring to its recent attacks against Israelis in the West Bank, adding that Hamas cannot be stopped, and will strike anywhere, at any time it wishes.
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Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Sorry, Judith, to rain on your parade but while Fatah and Hamas are indeed at odds, peace will prevail only when the Palestinian culture stops casting Jews as enemies who stole Arab lands and who must be defeated through violent jihad. Until, e.g., there are Palestinian textbooks that acknowledge even the possibility of peaceful co- existence with Israel, or show a map of Israel, any peace treaty will be a meaningless piece of paper.
(Incidentally, having studied Arabic in US, I am not aware of any Arabic textbook here where Israel is shown.)
May '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Ragnarok, while I agree that Palestinians must accept the Jews' and Israel's right to exist if there is to be true and lasting peace, this could be a good beginning. If Palestinian citizens realize that they have greater enemies than Israel, then that might allow them more room to question and reject those corrupt teachings.
Judith, is it also possible Hamas will regain leadership over the country? (I consider it a sovereign nation, regardless of how it's babied.)
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Aaron, it's definitely possible for Hamas to take full control. If Abbas can't pull it off with the Israelis, he'll have little credibility left and Hamas will step in to fill the vacuum. (That doesn't have to follow -- the Palestinians on the West Bank could, in theory, resist Hamas -- but it's likely.) The stakes are very high indeed.
Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Judith, have you noticed that "peace talks in Israel" threads don't draw many comments?
My guess is that's because those of us here of a certain age have been hearing about peace talks in Israel ever since the Kennedy administration.
And we realize that no matter what Israel puts on the table, it's gonna be a fail.
Because the Muslim world doesn't want peace with Israel.
They want a burnt-out, smoking wasteland.
Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
for something important here: orange juice with soda is very good. BUT. APPLE JUICE with soda is much better! Thank you, Judith.
Jun '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Kenneth: Judith, have you noticed that "peace talks in Israel" threads don't draw many comments?
My guess is that's because those of us here of a certain age have been hearing about peace talks in Israel ever since the Kennedy administration.
I share your skepticism (and age), Kenneth, but I hope that Judith doesn't take your observation or the lack of comments as discouraging her following the topic here on Ricochet. I really value having her local, personal prespective and the very articulate reports from the front as yet another attempt for peace is made. The lack of comments may simply reflect inability to add much insight to Judith's excellent posts on a subject few of us understand at a deep level
Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Pilgrim
Kenneth: Judith, have you noticed that "peace talks in Israel" threads don't draw many comments?
My guess is that's because those of us here of a certain age have been hearing about peace talks in Israel ever since the Kennedy administration.
I share your skepticism (and age), Kenneth, but I hope that Judith doesn't take your observation or the lack of comments as discouraging her following the topic here on Ricochet. I really value having her local, personal prespective and the very articulate reports from the front as yet another attempt for peace is made. The lack of comments may simply reflect inability to add much insight to Judith's excellent posts on a subject few of us understand at a deep level · Sep 12 at 11:08am
Well said.
And agreed.
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Kenneth: Because the Muslim world doesn't want peace with Israel.
They want a burnt-out, smoking wasteland. · Sep 12 at 9:29am
The Moslem world is not monolithic. It's as inaccurate and dangerous to US foreign policy to believe that there are no peaceful Moslems as it is to believe that there are only peaceful Moslems. If we can't grasp this, we're doomed.
Jun '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Judith,
My fear is that if the Palestinian Authority makes a peace, they will just be cast as pawns of Israel, or otherwise have their legitimacy questioned/denied.
Is it your sense that the PA has sufficient support to survive such a peace agreement? Will it galvanize supporters of Hamas more than it provides hope for Palestinians who truly want peace?
Is it a realistic hope of Israelis that peace with PA will serve as foundation for lasting peace? Or is it just the best hope, even though it is doubtful.
Thank you for your contributions here.
Mark
Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Judith, I apologize for my original, poorly-crafted post.
I just happened to have noticed that people don't seem to comment much when it comes to the topic, which is certainly no reflection on you.
And it certainly doesn't reflect any lack of concern for Israel.
It's just that for most of our lifetimes, we've heard it all: Presidents and Secretaries of State and Ambassadors and Special Envoys with some new twist and some expression of hope. And then - nothing changes, with the single exception of the treaty between Egypt and Israel.
And we're wary, because it seems each round of negotiations starts with the premise that Israel needs to offer up yet another concession.
So my point, so poorly communicated, was that I - and I assumed quite a few others - feel that after half a century of more or less constant discussion and negotiation, we have nothing of any real value to contribute to the issue.
In other words, we're eager to hear your perspective, but we don't feel we can make much contribution to an issue that has, for so long, been so intractable.
Jul '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Claire Berlinski
Kenneth: Because the Muslim world doesn't want peace with Israel.
They want a burnt-out, smoking wasteland. · Sep 12 at 9:29am
The Moslem world is not monolithic. It's as inaccurate and dangerous to US foreign policy to believe that there are no peaceful Moslems as it is to believe that there are only peaceful Moslems. If we can't grasp this, we're doomed. · Sep 12 at 12:15pm
Claire, I should have said the Arab world.
But then again, where are the voices in the Muslim world calling for a peaceful solution?
What prominent figure or political entity sails against the current on the question of Israel's right to exist?
Indeed, when even the most moderate of Muslim nations, Turkey, sends a ship full of armed thugs to provoke a violent incident off the shores of Ghaza, what are we to think?
And why should we disbelieve that Muslims hold the Koran - so violently implacable with regard to Jews - as the word and literal commandment of God?
The Islamic world may not be a monolith.
But on the "Palestinian" question, I suspect it's more monolithic than you might wish to think.
Sep '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Claire Berlinski
The Moslem world is not monolithic. It's as inaccurate and dangerous to US foreign policy to believe that there are no peaceful Moslems as it is to believe that there are only peaceful Moslems.
No one on Ricochet is grumpier about Islam than I am. But I absolutely believe that "peaceful," "moderate" Muslims exist. The problem is this: The official institutions of Islam contain no "support system" for moderates. The closer you get to the center of religious power in Islam, the more radical it becomes. A moderate Muslim is an automatic "outlier" in his own culture. If he speaks out, he might be killed. He is marginalized and powerless.
No reflection on Judith, but when I see headlines like "Middle East Peace: Reason for Hope," my eyes just glaze over. It may as well read, "Green Cheese on the Moon: Reason for Hope." Middle East Peace is the great chimera of our time. Like Kenneth, I have seen this farce played out too many times. Even when something seems to "work," it ends badly. Jimmy Carter got Egypt & Israel to sign a treaty. Jimmy Carter got Anwar Sadat killed. Good one, Jimmy.
Edited on Sep 12, 2010 at 7:37pmRe: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Everybody, I was out on the town in Tel Aviv last night so wasn't around to jump into this conversation while it was happening. Thank you, every one of you, for your honesty and directness and also for your kind words. You've gone straight to the heart of the matter and you're all perfectly right: I need to address, head-on, whether or not the pursuit of peace between us and the Palestinians is a complete waste of time. I can certainly understand why many observers would feel that it is.
In fact, you know what, guys -- I feel a post coming on. I'll try to get something up in the next day or two that addresses the issues you've raised with me here. This is important stuff -- important for everybody, in my view -- and I want to do everything I can to make sure as many people as possible are engaged.
And I'll definitely work on my post titles. Thanks for the heads-up, David. ;-)
Jun '10
Re: The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks: Reason for Hope
Judith, as you craft more posts, perhaps you can provide some insight on the role of Arab-Isrealis in the future of "the Jewish state."