The Intolerance of Tolerance
James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal has provided an excellent service. He simply points to two pieces of advice offered by the same Washington Post/Slate advice columnist, Emily Yoffe, as part of a discussion of why social conservatism has much more appeal than, well, the folks at the Washington Post and Slate and other elite institutions realize. Here's the first piece of advic from Emily Yoffe's "Dear Prudence" column:
Q: I attend a small university studying engineering. I hold traditional values and I would like to get married to a woman willing to stay home and raise our children. I am lucky enough to not have any student loans and will be able to support a wife and children on my salary. Preferably, I would like to marry a woman who has a college degree and is smart because we would match intellectually and she would provide the best environment for my children. Women I meet on campus frequently call me sexist. I never thought of myself as sexist because I have no problem whatsoever with women who work in general and I respect my fellow female students and professors. Just because I don't want my wife to work does not mean I think women in general shouldn't work. Am I sexist? Is there any way I can meet a woman who shares my values, or was I born 40 years too late?
A: You sound like the male equivalent of the bride in the letter above who much preferred planning her wedding without the bother of a real person to marry. Of course we all have ideas of what our ideal life would be, then life happens and we have to--even want to--adjust to reality. Yes, there are women, even well-educated ones, who would prefer to stay home with their children. But dictating these terms before you've even gotten far enough to go steady makes you sound rigid, dictatorial, and yes, sexist. Instead of announcing your life plan for the so-far nonexistent woman you plan to marry, you should just date interesting, intelligent women and find out what they want out of life. But if you're determined to only spend time with women who meet your qualifications, go to a rally for Rick Santorum. He shares your views of women's roles, and during his Q&A ask if he can fix you up.
Now, I come from a different culture, one where even women who work want husbands who will sacrifice as necessary to enable women to spend more time at home with their children. The man could use more flexibility, perhaps, but the snide and judgmental tone from Yoffe -- the intolerance, as it were -- is really striking.
I'll let Taranto summarize the other piece of advice, lest I run afoul of the Code of Conduct:
In an earlier column, she responded in blasé fashion to a (fictional, we hope to God) letter from a man who claimed to be carrying on a homosexual affair with his own fraternal twin brother: "When people ask when you're each going to go out there and find a nice young man, tell them that while it may seem unorthodox, you both have realized that living together is what works for you," she advised.
But when a decent young man professes a desire to marry an old-fashioned girl and take financial responsibility for his family, Yoffe treats him as a deviant. She denounces him as "sexist" even though he is careful to affirm that women have every right to work outside the home if they choose to do so. He mentions nothing about politics, yet she feels compelled to bring Santorum, the feminists' Emmanuel Goldstein, into the mix.
Yoffe's hostility to this young man tells us more about elite culture than it does about her personally.
I can think of no better example of the "new tolerance," as D.A. Carson puts it in his new book The Intolerance of Tolerance. It's not tolerant so much as embracing of any social system that has no standards, quite intolerant of those that do, and firmly positioned to provide a morally relativistic philosophy in defense of this intolerant tolerance.
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Comments:
Jul '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Wow. What a moronic answer to a decent question. Treating a traditional man like a leper is the new norm for these elite idiots.
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Guruforhire
Would openness to divorce be a deal breaker before your married?
Yes. In Catholic understanding, open to divorce means closed to marriage. Marriage is, of its essence, indissoluble. Catholic couples have to solemnly affirm four things before they can be married in the Church:
1) That they understand what they are undertaking (i.e. a permanent, indissoluble union)
2) That they they are free to marry (and responsible enough to marry)
3) That come to the sacrament freely, without any coercion or undue pressure
4) That they will accept children generously
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Mark Belling Fan
katievs
But it's not the kind of thing we should be laying down as a demand in our search for a life's companion.
What demands are acceptable?
Is it okay to limit possible mates to those that are able to have children?
How would you know? I think it would be completely unfair to have your prospective mate go in for invasive medical examinations (which may not be conclusive anyway) to determine whether they are able to have children.
Unless you're talking about age or a disease or something.
Apr '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Of all the errors in the marriage market, knowing at the outset you want children and want a wife who shares that vision and has the gifts required to do the hard work of raising them is hardly worth the adjective of "dictatorial."
Absolutely. Knowing what you want in a spouse and how important it is to you is crucial. If he was adamant about not wanting children, a lot of people would find that responsible and honest. Both prospective partners should be upfront about their wants and needs and then they can decide how to proceed.
My take on the engineering student is that....he's an engineering student. He's probably methodical in his thought processes, earnest, and a little less than Mr Smooth. He might want to work on his approach and consider online dating but I don't see anything wrong with his preference for a stay-at home wife and mother.
Dec '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
katievs
Guruforhire
Would openness to divorce be a deal breaker before your married?
Yes. In Catholic understanding, open to divorce means closed to marriage. Marriage is, of its essence, indissoluble. Catholic couples have to solemnly affirm four things before they can be married in the Church:
1) That they understand what they are undertaking (i.e. a permanent, indissoluble union)
2) That they they are free to marry (and responsible enough to marry)
3) That come to the sacrament freely, without any coercion or undue pressure
4) That they will accept children generously · 3 minutes ago
So the catholic view of life is important to you, and a deal breaker if your potential partner did not also share it.
Fundamental agreement has been achieved.
Personally I think he should take out at least a statistically relevant sample of young ladies and learn the great many other things he doesnt want, or potential bad habits that are intolerable.
Edited on February 29, 2012 at 5:49pmMay '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Best not to date anyone you can't imagine marrying. No point in heading off to a destination you don't want to end up at.
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Judithann, it seems to me right and good that you let your own experience inform your way of being a mother. But you shouldn't let it cause you to judge other people's experience.
I've known women whose experience is that they are much better mothers when they have some scope for their talents outside their home.
We have to take care not to make moral absolutes where there aren't any.
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
katievs
Of all the errors in the approach to marriage in our society, perhaps the most basic is thinking of it as a market.
Openness to children is a demand ofmarriage. To look for a spouse of high moral calibre, who loves children, and who is willing to do whatever is within his power to give them a good life is wisdom.
You can't tell someone whose background is in economics not to use the word "market"! Just kidding. I get your point.
And I agree that marriage should be thought of in terms of what you can offer your spouse rather than what your spouse can offer you. Still, I can't help but think that this man was thinking that way, even if too rigidly, -- about what he must do to provide his wife the opportunity to stay home and raise their children.
Dec '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
katievs
I dislike the language of demands in marriage. It's not an economic exchange (though it involves a transfer of "all our worldly goods".) ...
Since children are the objective "end" of marriage, in the Catholic view , it is not even possible to marry unless we are open to children.
..
I don't understand how you can be against the language of demands in marriage and then turn around and say its not even possible to marry unless we are open to children. Marriage is about more than love. There are plenty of people you can fall in love with, who with would make awesome partners. Its a partnership, and you don't enter a partnership without making sure both partners are in agreement with the "ground rules"/expectations.
1) Are we going to have children, if so around how many?
2) Are we the same religion? If not how are we going to raise our children?
3) Is monogamy expected?
A large portion of premarital counseling is devoted to making sure both potential partners are are the same page. I think it is healthy for people to discuss these things even before they get that from in the relationship.
Edited on February 29, 2012 at 5:52pmMay '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
I agree. But we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we are too limited in what we imagine.
Before I fell in love with my husband, I could not have imagined marrying a foreigner.
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Nyadnar17
I don't understand how you can be against the language of demands in marriage and then turn around and say its not even possible to marry unless we are open to children.
Children are the objective "end" of marriage. Openness to children is therefore a demand of marriage. So is fidelity. It's not my personal demand.
Edited on February 29, 2012 at 5:53pmSep '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Mark Belling Fan
katievs
But it's not the kind of thing we should be laying down as a demand in our search for a life's companion.
What demands are acceptable?
Is it okay to limit possible mates to those that are able to have children?
How would you know? I think it would be completely unfair to have your prospective mate go in for invasive medical examinations (which may not be conclusive anyway) to determine whether they are able to have children.
Unless you're talking about age or a disease or something. · 0 minutes ago
I know a woman that was told at a young age that she would never be able to conceive. It was the result of a medical condition.
This was what I had in mind.
If a woman in this position reveals her background to a man after a couple of dates, is it okay for him to use that information to end the relationship?
Sep '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
katievs
Judithann, it seems to me right and good that you let your own experience inform your way of being a mother. But you shouldn't let it cause you to judge other people's experience.
I've known women whose experience is that they are much better mothers when they have some scope for their talents outside their home.
We have to take care not to make moral absolutes where there aren't any. · 4 minutes ago
Have these women asked their children how they feel about it?
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
The appropriate answer should have been this: Love is not what YOU want. It's about making the other person happy. If you want to make her happy and she wants to make you happy then the two of you will find an accommodation with each other. The reason so many marriages fail is when each spouse believes the marriage is about themselves in the singular.
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Mark Belling Fan
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Unless you're talking about age or a disease or something. · 0 minutes agoHow would you know? I think it would be completely unfair to have your prospective mate go in for invasive medical examinations (which may not be conclusive anyway) to determine whether they are able to have children.
I know a woman that was told at a young age that she would never be able to conceive. It was the result of a medical condition.
This was what I had in mind.
If a woman in this position reveals her background to a man after a couple of dates, is it okay for him to use that information to end the relationship? · 2 minutes ago
Yes. Because marriage and family life are so bound up in their essence, that would be okay. It would also be okay for him to keep dating her, if he's really drawn to her.
A couple has to be open to children to marry; they don't have to actually be able to have them. (Again, I'm speaking from the Catholic point of view.)
Oct '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Incest... Makes me want to vomit. I think they've done studies on that, actually. Most people do have an involuntary revulsion to the idea of incest. Not Dear Prudence, though, apparently.
Dec '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
@katievs:
I disagree. In my mind exclusivity is the point of marriage, not children. It seems like you are saying that if two people know they don't want to have children they shouldn't get married. I disagree.
@Mark Belling Fan
I think it is personally reasonable for one person to use disclosed medical information to end a relationship. If a prospective mate is incapable of having children, if they have HIV, if they are transgendered, all these and more are valid reasons to break off a relationship.
@katievs: & Mollie Hemingway, Ed. :
Edited on February 29, 2012 at 6:20pmIn what way is thinking of dating, courtship, and marriage as a "market" a bad thing? Just because love and friendship are involved doesn't mean logic and tradeoffs have no place in the decision to transform a friend into a spouse.
May '11
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Sheesh! You guys are missing the whole point here. The guy looking for a wife is an ENGINEERING student. He most likely has the social skills of a twelve year old. He has analysed the problem, written down the requirements (probably in an Excel spreadsheet) and has check boxes in the columns under the gals names. He is going through the data gathering process and can't comprehend why the co-operation level is so low in his test subjects.
He may grow out of this...maybe.
Nov '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
Not so sure about this. My mother stayed home, and I sort of remember wishing she would get out of the house a bit more, for her sake. (She didn't like being home, and we felt her unhappiness.)
I think we think of the 1950s sit-com ideal as the "normal" family life, when it has not necessarily been so in the history of the world. Admittedly, mothers commonly stay with very young children in most cultures, if the mothers are living, which has not always been something one could take for granted. However, I can think of at least one culture where kids were separated from their mothers pretty young--the upper class of England, in which small children were usually raised by nannies until they were sent away to boarding school, at around age 8. That culture produced some pretty great men.
May '10
Re: The Intolerance of Tolerance
On a related note, one of my government professors in college, a ferocious former lobbyist who couldn't stand the relaxed pace of Southern speech, once asked the men in my class how many of us would not expect our wives to work. Out of maybe 15 men, only I raised my hand.
Perhaps, more felt as I did but didn't want to admit that they respected the traditional model of marriage. Such is the power of political correctness.