The GOP Debate: Moot Points
Tonight's GOP presidential debate may end up "ricocheting" all over this site, with more than one of us writing about what went down in South Carolina.
Here's my contribution to the chaos:
1) Ron Paul's foreign policy views are why he's a limited-ceiling candidate -- sorta the anti-war Eugene McCarthy in a nest of hawks. Yes, he got some applause for suggesting it's time to bring the troops home from Afghanistan. Then again, the debate was held in a "peace center" . . .
2) I like how Chris Wallace hangs politicians with their own words -- as he did to Rick Santorum and the appearance of anti-Islamic rhetoric. Santorum lost his 2006 Senate race by 18% -- gonna have to dig deep deep in the presidential archives to find a candidate who won their party's nomination after suffering such a pasting.
3) Wallace tries to trap Tim Pawlenty on water-boarding Pawlenty's response is sharp: he's been to Iraq and Afghanistan repeatedly, has always supported enhanced interrogation techniques (note how the audience, which applaused when Ron Paul said bring the troops home, also applauds when the candidates (sans Paul) raise their hands in support of EIT's -- maybe long-term trouble for Obama).
4) Pawlenty also has a strong answer on how to stimulate a state economy: nails the Obama Adminstraton on the Boeing-NLRB-North Charleston stink (big applause). Pawlenty scores again (no, I don't work for him) on healthcare reform -- lays off Romeny, smacks Obama. I think that's smart -- plenty of chances to go after Romney, in New Hampshre, at that state's June 7 debate. Twenty minutes into the debate and I feel a stature gap a-growin' between the former Minnesota guv and his debate pals . . .
5) Thirty minutes into this debate and I'm not sure if I've heard the words "Tea Party". And here I thought "that's what the Tea Party movement is all about" would be the drinking-game refrain of the night.
6) Herman Cain is a remarkable story -- turned Godfather's Pizza from red ink to a profit, then led the effort to buy it from Pillsbury. Probably knows more about business than anyone else on this stage. As the only African-American in the debate, he also knows better than others what it's like to be mocked -- on a very personal level -- for belonging to the GOP. So naturally, he gets precious little attention from the questioners (as I write this, former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson is whining that he's not getting any love from Chris, Juan and Shannon).
7) Forty minutes into the debate and it's getting sleeeeeepy. This is the problem when the "forum" lacks a frontrunner/obvious target: not much drama, little fireworks between the candidates. I'm assuming Romney won't skip that New Hampshire debate, as the Granite State is vital to his candidacy. Maybe that leads to more compelling theater.
8) Ten minutes to go -- don't think there's been any talk about education or the environment. Don't recall a candidate being asked point-blank where they'd slash federal spending. Nor, for that matter, how the GOP could/should do better among African-American and Latino voters. Bonus question: the GOP is dominant in South Carolina -- all statewide officeholders are Republicans; there's all of one Democrat in the congressional delegation. Why not ask the candidates how to export this kind of success to other states?
9) Mitch Daniels isn't at the debate, but he doesn't go unnoticed -- his call for a truce on social wedge issues is smacked down hard by Santorum (who uses the term "moral issues"). Methinks this is Daniels' first real challenge should he get in the race: explain what he meant without appearing to be disrepctful or dismissive of others' views (always a challenge when wading into the abortion debate).
10) Pawlenty, his record shows, supported the concept of cap-and-trade back in 2008 (audience mildly groans). Uh-oh. PolitiFact.com says he was for it before he was against it. He gives a bad answer, btw: the old "nobody's perfect" spin.
11) Two lightning rounds of questions, then on to closing remarks. Nothing memorable said about the in abstentia Republicans. btw, not until Gary Johnson mentioned Sarah Palin did the former Alaska governor factor into the dicussion. Sign of a fading star?
12) Closing remarks done. Next Fox debate is in Ames, Iowa in August.
The night's winners: Obviously, Romney and the other higher-tiered candidates who skipped the debate. And Herman Cain, if you believe Frank Luntz's post-debate focus group.
And . . . House Speaker John Boehner, who according to CBS News' Political Hotsheet:
"Hotsheet spotted Boehner at Morton's The Steakhouse on Connecticut Avenue in Washington enjoying a bottle of Cabernet -- and a couple of cigarettes.
Speaking of the debate, Boehner told Hotsheet that he will "read about it tomorrow."
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Sep '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
Bill Whalen
"Hotsheet spotted Boehner at Morton's The Steakhouse on Connecticut Avenue in Washington enjoying a bottle of Cabernet -- and a couple of cigarettes.
Best play of the whole night if you ask me.
Oct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
I've been a Herman Cain fan early on and I'm glad he's now getting introduced to a much larger audience because it's going to take off from here. I think he can be a top tier candidate.
In addition to Ron Paul's foreign policy (of which I'm familiar) there's also the issue of drugs, including heroin, and prostitution (which I didn't know about). I was holding out the benefit of the doubt for him but I'm not too sure anymore.
Did you think that Juan's questions were a bit quirky? They seemed like softball rhetorical questions?
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
bereket kelile: I've been a Herman Cain fan early on and I'm glad he's now getting introduced to a much larger audience because it's going to take off from here. I think he can be a top tier candidate.
In addition to Ron Paul's foreign policy (of which I'm familiar) there's also the issue of drugs, including heroin, and prostitution (which I didn't know about). I was holding out the benefit of the doubt for him but I'm not too sure anymore.
Did you think that Juan's questions were a bit quirky? They seemed like softball rhetorical questions? · May 5 at 7:58pm
Juan Williams asking questions at a GOP presidential debate is not unlike myself being asked to audition Oprah's would-be successors . . .
Oct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
Bill Whalen
Santorum lost his 2006 Senate race by 18% -- gonna have to dig deep deep in the presidential archives to find a candidate who won their party's nomination after suffering such a pasting.
Off the top of my head: William McKinley.
Oct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
focus group said herman cain won. if you're funny like huckabee, you can make good impression.
Oct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
I believe Pawlenty did well, but the big winner tonight was Herman Cain. How this will play out in the coming months is anyone's guess, but Cain is certainly worthy of further consideration.
Oct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
i had fun watching the debate.
May '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
I don't know much about Herman Cain, but he receives many fond mentions on Ricochet. I'll keep an eye on him. That said, I doubt many people other than news hawks have ever heard his name, much less put a face to it.
Allen West probably has greater recognition since his speeches are circulating in emails and on Facebook pages.
What sort of name recognition does John Bolton have? Is it any worse than the governors? Daniels and Pawlenty are still unknown except in name to most Texas conservatives I know. Nationally televised debates will be a major influence in advertising.
Internet is ubiquitous these days, particularly since the propogation of smartphones. Maybe it's time for a YouTube debate. It needn't occur in real time. Like Ricochet, candidates could have a discussion over the course of days or weeks.
Oh wait... they want to reveal as few of their views as possible. Nevermind.
Seriously, the Ricochet team knows some of these candidates. Y'all should pitch an online debate. There's no harm in trying.
Jun '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
Winners (and I use the term very loosely) - those candidates who exhibited a commanding presence and level headedness:
Herman Cain
Rick Santorum
That said, I don't see either of these guys making the final cut...for VP either.
Also ran...A respectable career bureaucrat but still don't see him as presidential or being able to put the screws to Obama in a debate:
Tim Pawlenty
A candidate who is right on many issues but whose time has passed and still chooses unfortunate words or phrases to characterize issues to a Republican audience (i.e., "militarism"). His son is a much more effective and articulate politician and needs to take notes from his father on what not to say that can marginalize your prospects:
Ron Paul
A candidate who needs to go home to his home in New Mexico:
Gary Johnson
Johnson was visibly nervous, whining about not being called and then flustered when he was called on. Has no presidential bearing. He seems to be the type of individual who would hard-pressed controlling a classroom of college students much less get the respect of hard-nosed politicians and policy wonks on the Hill. Worse than Jimmy Carter.
Edited on May 5, 2011 at 8:51pmMar '11
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
I didn't pay much attention, cause my heroine wasn't there - but Herman Cain was pretty good. He was going rogue, the Washington outsider. The real one would be better.
I really like Rick Santorum - he gets Islamism better than most - pity this seems to be a negative, these days.
Edited on May 5, 2011 at 8:56pmOct '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
Pawlenty unabashedly courted South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54434.html
May '10
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
If nothing else, this debate made me much more confident about the GOP baseline. Unlike the trash at the bottom of the heap in 08, I could take all of these guys seriously in one way or another. Other than Pawlenty, who clearly seemed to be trying to reposition himself on a number of things, they were all focused, and had clearly articulated philosophies that differed from the others on stage. Although, as is now the norm, this wasn't really a debate, but as far as group Q&A's go, the fox team asked mostly sharp and relevant questions.
I really like Cain. He's focused, articulate and he brings the bullish 'outsider' quality that I liked about Sarah Palin without the baggage and the country bumpkin aura; or Trump without clownishness. He gave a GWB styled "I'll surround myself with good people" response to the FP questions, but frankly, I'd rather the candidate admit their inexperience but provide a core philosophy, rather than the typical candidates who pretend like they know what they are talking about even though I know they don't (see: 95% of the governors and congressmen who run).
Edited on May 6, 2011 at 5:59amJan '11
Re: The GOP Debate: Moot Points
I'd read about Johnson and all his vetoes and was intrigued but just seemed kind of loopy. Ron Paul's supporters are really getting annoying (Westboro Baptist Church annoying).
I liked Mr. Cain as well and thought Pawlenty did well. Santorum is trying way too hard - it's off putting.
I realize he wasn't there and he's a Ricochet favorite but Mich Daniels is not much of a salesman. I want to like him, he has an impressive background & record but a candidate has to inspire people somewhat - not put them to sleep. Though Obama was the Tiger Beat candidate, I don't think we can counter with someone as painfully dry as him.