The Devil and Reverend Jones
I was kicking back smoking a few pages of the Tao Te Ching, when it occurred to me there's an insidious pattern to the way the media treats right-wing crackpots. Specifically, I was thinking about this clown in Florida who was--but maybe now isn't--going to flambe the Koran. The media rush to make Bozos like this the face of the opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque, in the same way they love to use Joe McCarthy as the face of anti-Communism or Doctor-killers as the face of the pro-life movement. It demonizes and negates the opposition itself and leaves us in the position of spluttering something like, "Well, of course, I don't approve of burning the Koran, but..." I can't help wondering if there's a better strategical response. Offering a free recipe for S'mores with every copy of the Koran? No, that's not it...
- Comment (19)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (5)
Comments :
Jun '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Maybe would could condemn Koran burning as adding to global warming???
Jul '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
What is up with this "narrative" throughout the MSN about how all Americans must be hypersensitive to the feelings of Muslims at all times (as opposed to Tea-Party People, the Chamber of Commerce, fur-wearers, petroleum industry workers, the NRA, etc. ad nauseum)?
If some schmuck atheist in Cambridge or Berkeley sent out a press release announcing his intention to burn Bibles at a ACLU meeting I doubt it would get much press.
Nobody would have heard of this idiot "pastor" in FL with all of maybe 50 "followers" in a rented church if he had not been manufactured (or at minimum promoted with millions of dollars of airtime).
But hey, it fits the narrative (e.g., MSM Propaganda)...
Actually, I would have gone if I could have thrown in some copies of Das Kapital, Mein Kamph, plus anything written by Al Gore.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
It's bullying and intimidation, pure and simple. A lot of people do it out of reflex, because they've been trained, and haven't really reflected on the practice. The motives aren't always sinister, but the action is. It effectively shuts down conversation and invites a battle.
Sometimes I respond with, "Is your argument so weak that you have to try to make this about [me, him, her, them, etc]?"
The trick is to ask them a question. Liberals are pretty good about putting conservatives on defense. Conservatives need to play offense more, and that means asking questions so liberals have to explain their positions. And don't allow the conversation to move on until your question is answered. Then use further questions to draw attention to the holes in their response (Socratic method).
Questions often work because they offer an illusion of deference. You can tear apart someone's argument without it being obvious that you have the upper hand, because you haven't taken a positive position against their argument. Just prod and prod until liberals defeat themselves.
Jul '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
The response is after we sputter our condemnation of this nut, we also add that this is also a test of Islam as a religion of peace. We should ask the moderate Imam heading the GZM to condemn any threat of violence against the nutty preacher. Demonstrate your moderation to Americans in a concrete way. We will respond with respect and trust to moderate Islam. We will rightfully respond with doubt to anything else.
Aug '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
The Tea Parties missed a golden opportunity here to permanently damage the left's narrative that they are intolerant racists. They should have organized a demonstration against this church, and got as many people out to it as they could. Wave banners with slogans like, "Free speech is for all Americans", and "Intolerance is wrong in any form."
A display like that would have caused the left's message machine to implode under the weight of its own contradictions, and would have made the Tea Party much more palatable to moderates uncomfortable with the description of the Tea Party they've been fed by the mainstream media.
Aug '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Aaron makes a good point that Liberals are good at putting Conservatives on the defense. I find that Liberals make an appeal to emotional responses first and foremost. Often times I find myself responding to that first as a way of saying "don't lump me in with the crackpots". That wastes a chance to provide a persuasive counter-argument. Responding with questions sets them back on their heels. It prevents them from setting the ground rules for how the debate is framed.
I notice talk show host Hugh Hewitt will do that with Lefty callers until they start contradicting themselves. I just wish I could remember to do it as a natural response.
Jul '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
This is such a trap.
This guy is not one of us. He is not influenced by us.
And we are only influenced by him if we allow ourselves to fall into that trap.
The proper response is:
"This has nothing to do with us. You guys duke it out amongst yourselves - we have more productive things to do."
Aug '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Personally, I don't have much energy for denouncing this guy. Doing so implicitly acquiesces in the double-standard that, while we accept the routine defiling of our sacred symbols on a massive scale by Muslims around the world with relative equanimity, we also agree that it's perfectly understandable and justifiable when they fly into a violent rage over some insignificant insult (e.g., the mythical flushed Koran at Gitmo, the Cartoon Mohammeds, the Teddy Mohammed on South Park, etc.). Indeed, when they burn our flags, chant Death to America, attack our embassies, we're supposed to apologize abjectly for whatever it was that made them angry in the first place.
Muslims are not wild animals. They are the same species as the rest of us, and just as capable of moral reflection and judgment, so I'm not willing to hold them to a lower standard than we hold ourselves to. Yet I'd bet hard cash that somewhere in the world Muslims are going to riot over this, some people will be killed, and that this will happen even if this preacher changes his mind and the Koran burning never happens.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Agreed.
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Here's a response: what if the NEA funded a play about intolerance, where a character burned a Koran? Even if he used a stunt-double tome, would that fine conceptual difference matter to the people on the other side of the world inflamed about the real thing?
Jun '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
14:28 PDT KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Hundreds of angry Afghans burned a U.S. flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" to protest plans — canceled Thursday — by a small American church to torch copies of the Muslim holy book (from S.F. Gate)
Edited on Sep 9, 2010 at 8:17pmJul '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Joseph Stanko: 14:28 PDT KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Hundreds of angry Afghans burned a U.S. flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" to protest plans — canceled Thursday — by a small American church to torch copies of the Muslim holy book (from S.F. Gate) · Sep 9 at 8:15pm
Edited on Sep 09 at 08:17 pm
Bring our troops home now. Leave these cousin-marrying 7th-Century lunatics to their own miserable devices.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
As often happens, I've managed to miss the gist of what's being said in my haste to respond. How do we respond to the media spouting this nonsense, as opposed to individuals?
With imagery. It seems whenever liberals label us anything, they're guilty of something similar. We need to flood the internet not with arguments but with YouTube videos that flash some liberal buzzword like "tolerance" before a stream of pictures highlighting their hypocrisy. Remove the creator's signature.
And with humor (which many Ricochet contributors, including yourself, have already figured out). The glorious thing about humor is, if it's truly funny, people who disagree with you might consider your point. When the creator of that humor is behind the scenes, that allows people who reject him or her as "the enemy" to enjoy the work more freely of bias. When the comedian is front and center, it helps to mix in politically neutral jokes to earn trust.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
This reminded me of the professor from the University of Minnesota who publicly desecrated the eucharist we Catholics believe is the Body of Christ. There wasn't much in the way of press coverage labeling him a wackjob or national leaders objecting to his hate and bigotry. Instead he rose in stature in the science blogs and as a "face" of atheism.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
In order to get "us" not to burn "their" stuff, they just went right ahead and burned "our" stuff and wished death upon all of us. I'm glad we could work this out peacefully.
Jun '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Just now on MSNBC's Morning Joe (I know, I know) both Donny Deutsch and Pat Buchanan advocated that the president use his war powers to send federal marshals to Florida to stop the Koran burning, 1st Amendment be damned. If that happens we would have a constitutional crisis in addition to a "clash of civilizations."
Aug '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Let me clearly state that burning the Quran is NOT a Christian response to Muslims. It is not loving one's enemies. However, I am glad this guy (and now perhaps others) have threatened to do this act because the reaction illustrates a profound problem with our culture which is that we wrongly equate "tolerance" with "acceptance." Just because I should tolerate my Muslim neighbor's religion does not mean I must accept his truth claims. Indeed, if I believe the Christian truth claims then I must reject all those contrary claims, including Islam. Our culture cannot abide someone making uncompromisable truth claims. Which, in essence is what pastor has done.
Suppose this guy in Florida made an announcement in this vein: "Because I am a Christian and because I believe Islam to be a false religion whose adherents are misguided and doomed to damnation, I call on all fellow Christians to join me in fasting and PRAYER for the conversion of all Muslims to Christianity on the anniversary of 9/11."
Assuming he had received the same widespread airplay and coverage with that announcement, would not the reaction have been the same? I submit it would have...
Aug '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Smoking the Tao Te Ching , eh ? How do you keep it lit ?
We were trying to smoke a copy of Omar Khayyam with some spareribs over apple wood, and the meat probe registered "apostasy" right before the smoker blew.
May '10
Re: The Devil and Reverend Jones
Perhaps the trouble is really in how the media treats left-wing crackpots. Seriously, a nutjob is a nutjob, and should be treated as such. But for some reason the left-wing looloos, from Che Guevara and Margaret Sanger to the Wikileaks guy and Al Gore, are lionized and lauded as rebels who's ends justify their crackpot means.
As you can see. I think name calling is the answer.