'The Dark Knight Rises'
Forget health care repeal—the biggest news yesterday came from Hollywood, where director Christopher Nolan announced that Anne Hathaway and Tom Hardy will be in the next Batman movie. I can't be the only Ricochet member who's ridiculously excited about this. I could watch Anne Hathaway read the telephone book. And Hardy was fantastic in last summer's Inception (also directed by Nolan).
What's interesting about Nolan's two Batman movies is that they are both political. Nolan likes exploring "big" questions, and in the case of this franchise he's exploring the relationship of justice, morality, the city, and man. Heady stuff for action films, I know, but somehow it all works.
Batman Begins was about whether a liberal political order that leads to immorality is worth saving. The Dark Knight illustrated that, in order to combat radical evil like the Joker, liberal political orders must sometimes resort to illiberal means. Watch Dark Knight, and you see Batman deploy the same tools George W. Bush deployed to combat terror—extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation, and warrantless surveillance. Amazingly for a Hollywood blockbuster, the film defends the limited use of each of these policies.
I can't wait to see what Nolan has in store for the third movie. And I'm also curious to see if the critics catch up to how conservative Nolan's project really is.
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May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Matthew Continetti:
Watch Dark Knight, and you see Batman deploy the same tools George W. Bush deployed to combat terror—extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation, and warrantless surveillance.
This is true, and there are many conservative ideas, but I'm not sure where you're getting the "liberal political order" from. What are the references to liberal politics?
Don't forget that a corporation (Wayne Enterprises) and private charity are cited as the salvation of Gotham City before Wayne is shot.
There are definitely many moral questions in both films, which is why they are among my favorite films. I can't wait for the next one!
If the series continues beyond The Dark Knight Rises, I hope Nolan will bring in another actor to keep The Joker in it. The Joker is unique among villains in that he doesn't want to destroy the hero.
By the way, I finally noticed after seeing Batman Begins half-a-dozen times that Victor Zsasz appears in the movie, so there's a good chance he'll show up again.
Dec '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
It's not even that it's conservative so much as it's not theologically liberal. In high school, as some project or another, I read a book by Theodore White called The Making of the President 1972. Not the classic 1960 work that liberals seem to love, but the one about the Nixon/McGovern race.
It was written shortly after the race and Watergate figured very little into it, but the interesting thing to me was White's use of the term Liberal Theology.
It stuck with me ever since. White lamented the Liberal Ideas having been lost and that liberalism had been simply a set of beliefs that one was required to have in order to be in the club and being in the club was how you became a good person.
Christopher Nolan's versions of Batman may be conservative or it may not, but at least it isn't a bunch of preachy pap. There's no true believer more insufferable, more inflexible and more immune to reason than a liberal.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
My favorite topic.
TDK was also about not taking taking our enemies at their word. The joker has multiple explanations for why he got his scars, but the larger point is that when he's telling you the story he's getting ready to kill you. Batman is the only one who doesnt' care to listen.
In Inception, Nolan points out that the most resilient virus is an idea. It's what makes otherwise normal, well behaved engineers fly planes into towers. He's possibly the most imaginative and relevant director to come out of Hollywood in decades. Even in a heist film, he's telling us something about our modern day troubles.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some crossover between The Dark Knight Rises and the video game Arkham City. Its prequel, Arkham Asylum, was released after the second film. It was one of the most popular and critically acclaimed games of the year (best game of the year, in my opinion), partially due to excellent storytelling.
The films and games are produced separately by unrelated companies, but they have a similar gritty feel. It would be unthinkable that Christopher Nolan isn't familiar with the games and has considered the character portrayals. More importantly, the producers of both projects probably realize that they could improve each other's sales by including one or two character crossovers besides Batman himself.
Known characters in Arkham City (the upcoming second game) are Catwoman and Hugo Strange.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Dent and the populace at large represent the liberal political order. Dent is hurt by the joker most of all and yet he falls for the joker's lies about the old canard that those who are fighting our enemies are just another side of the coin and any violence perpetrated on us is justified.The theme of escalation is prevalent throughout TDK and was mentioned at the end of Batman Begins. That superheroes & vigilantes are inherently detrimental to society because the emergence of a superhero requires a supervillain. Nolan takes it a step farther introducing the prisoner's dilemma by showing that people make the right choice eventually. In a movie about a hero, its not the hero who makes the right choice (batman played the joker's game and lost rachel) its the people who make the right choice. Ultimately, Nolan recognizes the risks of fighting evil but rejects the escalation argument by the film's end.
Edited on Jan 20, 2011 at 8:43amNov '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
For the nerds amongst us in Ricochet-land, the biggest controversy regarding the news out there in fanboy country is that of the designation of the two villains, Catwoman and Bane.
Catwoman is a shew in as she is really the only compelling and easy to identify female villain in Batman's rogues gallery, and she is sexy as all get out. Michelle Pfeiffer is the standard bearer as far as I am concerned. Anne Hathaway could easily take that mantel.
But Bane was most noted and the villain that juiced up and broke Batman's back. Seems the backstory was that Batman was caught off-guard due to being exhausted by all the work he had placed on his shoulders, leaving him open to an otherwise manageable opponent. Plenty of political analogy could be interpreted into that plot device should Nolan pursue it. My take is that he won't be so obvious. Rather, he may surprise everyone with the choice The nerds out there seem ready to defer their judgment to Nolan's brilliance.
The Dark Knight was simply a terrific movie. And, as referenced, an engaging allegory for the times.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
They did bring in Zsasz, didn't they? In the Arkham Asylum scenes somewhere. I thought it quite daring to use the Scarecrow and Ra's al-Ghul as your main villains in the first movie. Both are well-known to fans, but not to the wider audience, so neither was an automatic box office draw.
Dec '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
"Watch Dark Knight, and you see Batman deploy the same tools George W. Bush deployed to combat terror—extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation, and warrantless surveillance. Amazingly for a Hollywood blockbuster, the film defends the limited use of each of these policies."
The same is true for the Harry Potter book series.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Catwoman was a given for the third film. Based on his ouevre & love of James Bond films (bond always gets the girl), Nolan knows that a story about heroism that appeals to men requires a love interest, more so than the technological fetishism of the bond films. Nolan's Batman is more like Superman in that way, moving away from the cultural meme of the clint eastwood, post-Bond lone hero.
Since the first two films used Jeph Loeb's Batman comics as a springing point, I expect the next film to have a scene with Catwoman in Rome.
Oct '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Ann Hathaway was probably cast due to her performance in "Rachel Getting Married," a dark indie flick which showed pretty solid acting chops.
Nolan's gritty reality (sets located in the streets of Chicago and minimum CGI) really put the Batman films closer to our world. The exploration of the consequences of a hero, saving society while remaining outside of it, explore themes that remind me of John Wayne's "The Searchers."
The Oscars kept Dark Knight out of the "best picture" nominations, and expanded the category to 10 films the following year. In Hollywood, they call it "The Dark Knight rule."
Nov '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Agreed, though I would say that film was driven more by the intrigue of the origin and the novelty of Christian Bale as a substantive Batman than the villains. I had forgotten them until you just mentioned it. History (going back to the Tim Burton films) indicates that the presence of compelling villain perfomances go a long way to making Batman films. Without them, the films turn into a cartoonish exploration of the Batman psyche, or just a cartoon altogether.
Burton made the tactical error of killing off the Joker, thereby unleashing the volume of garbage that followed. Obviously the Ledger's performance of the Joker was so awesome that it is difficult to imagine reprising the role with another actor during this series. However, Nolan may have repeated the Burton mistake by killing off the other genius performance of the movie, and what would have been a perfect villain for a follow-up, Aaron Eckhart's Two-Face.
Sep '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
I haven't seen these Batman films, but I have often thought that Hollywood likes to repress conservatism politically so that there is more desire for it subliminally. When they want they can represent conservative ideas perfectly well. In fact for the sake of a good story/plot, they have to.
Another aspect or possibility is they repress these basic instincts in themselves and in others so much that it comes out in their unconscious dreams, that is, films.
Liberals are not in the least converted. In fact they are perversely satisfied that all these realities are played out in the fantasy of the movie theater so they are free to pursue their fantasies in the reality of the outside world. That's what I think anyway...
Edited on Jan 20, 2011 at 10:22amMay '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
AmishDude: It's not even that it's conservative so much as it's not theologically liberal.[...snip...]
Christopher Nolan's versions of Batman may be conservative or it may not, but at least it isn't a bunch of preachy pap. There's no true believer more insufferable, more inflexible and more immune to reason than a liberal. · Jan 20 at 8:20am
Just what I was thinking. All that's needed for a story to seem conservative is the lack of a left-wing party line. That, plus a certain complexity that mirrors real life. The movie doesn't make the case that Batman's violent response to violence is a lovely thing; only that it is, in certain cases, the unavoidable alternative to societal suicide.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
I disagree. This is not the speech of a liberal. He calls criminals "scum". He defends a vigilante and consolidated leadership in the wake of a corrupt system. And he criticizes society at large, not for creating an environment of poverty or inequality, but for failing to stand up against scum.
Good point.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
I don't see how Nolan "rejects the escalation argument" by the end. Gordon does say at the end that Batman is "the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now." But I think the "right now" is key. Gordon says that at the same time that Lucius destroys the surveillance tech Batman created. Extraordinary measures are temporarily set aside until they are needed again.
But, as we all know, the dark knight "rises" again. ;)
Harley Quinn and Batgirl can be compelling female characters. I can't immediately imagine how Poison Ivy could fit into Nolan's realism, but it could probably be done with some liberties.
By the way, I've never read a comic in my life. But the recent films and game have made me extremely interested in the Batman fiction. The game includes bios of many characters I was previously unfamiliar with, and Bane plays a role.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Don't start now. Comic books have abandoned the ideas that made them popular in favor of edgy material. Because like, gay feminist characters written by joss whedon are hella kewl.
Dent's liberalism is the crux of the film. He starts out tough on crime, but he lacks the strength to endure and falls into the joker's trap. Dent is the white knight, but the city needs more than a pretty face that gives them hope. Dent and Bruce seek the same ideal, a better society. Batman is willing to venture outside the city walls to fight for that ideal, no matter the cost. When his ideal causes him real damage, Dent turns on the people (Gordon and his family).
This is classic liberalism, blaming society for its failure to incite a revolution against the old order (the mob). Brecht would rewrite his characters to make them loathsome when he realized the West German audience was actually identifying with them. Hitler blamed the inadequacy of the german people for his failure as a leader.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
On 9/11, terrorists attacked the financial and military symbols of our nation, testaments to American hegemony over the world since WW2.
Nolan rejects the escalation argument because he realizes that society needs a silent guardian in times of peril, not a STOP symbol writ large in the sky. Symbols can be marginalized, they can be destroyed. A nation under siege needs good men willing to do bad things to bad people in the cover of dark.
Acting in our interest is not escalation, but that's how the joker sees it, that's how liberals see it. It is incumbent on the batman to cease his vigilantism, only then will the cycle of violence end. The argument states that the joker's card is the other side of the bat-coin, which it is not. That if only batman would unmask, the joker would leave us alone. If only we wouldn't try to defend ourselves, the terrorists would leave us alone.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Anang:
Nolan rejects the escalation argument because he realizes that society needs a silent guardian in times of peril, not a STOP symbol writ large in the sky. Symbols can be marginalized, they can be destroyed. A nation under siege needs good men willing to do bad things to bad people in the cover of dark.
Ahh, I understand now. Thanks.
That thinking is presented in the film. But, again, not in Dent. Dent yells at Batman, "You can't give in!" He puts his own life on the line, rather than let the city offer Batman as a scapegoat.
Anang
When his ideal causes him real damage, Dent turns on the people (Gordon and his family).
Good point.
You might be right that some of Dent's actions reflect liberal ideologies. I just can't see him as a fundamentally liberal character.
The essence of Dent/Two-Face is a noble man who allows personal pain to overwhelm his faith in justice and become all that he cares about. His obsession with chance reflects a despairing belief that life is cruel and pointless.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
The way I perceive the film, Dent and Batman represent the two necessary sides of justice. Dent represents law. Batman represents sanctions before and beyond law.
Incidentally, one of the great corruptions of American culture and government is the ever-strengthening assertion that government/law alone is responsible for and able to provide justice. Crime thrives, terrorism thrives and civility withers in a society that denies the freedom of individuals to protect themselves and each other. There must be a balance between official and unofficial action.
That's one of many philosophical questions raised by the films. Nolan challenges his audience to think deeply from beginning to end.
May '10
Re: 'The Dark Knight Rises'
Aaron Miller: Harley Quinn and Batgirl can be compelling female characters. I can't immediately imagine how Poison Ivy could fit into Nolan's realism, but it could probably be done with some liberties.
· Jan 20 at 10:45am
Of the three, I think Poison Ivy could be the most believable, in the same way as the Scarecrow. Chemicals, toxins, hallucinogens, pheromones... The story arc "Hothouse" has a very realistic (ie, non-superpower) treatment of her. No costume or anything. But deeply messed up in the head.
By the same token, the Animated Series turned the Penguin into a financier/occasional gangster/upscale nightclub owner (the Iceberg Lounge). Who happened to wear a tuxedo and have a cigarette holder. I could see him being a minor villain in a Nolan movie, like Tom Wilkinson's character in the first.