The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I don't even remember which talk show it was, but yesterday I heard this exchange:
Host (gross paraphrase): There have been many murders, rapes and robberies at the Occupy demonstrations and there have never been any at the Tea Party events.
Liberal Caller (darned close paraphrase): Well, sure, that's because everybody at Tea Party events is armed.
If this same caller were having a conversation about gun control, he would ridicule the fact-based opinion that when law-abiding citizens are armed, there is less crime.
Before I draw the conclusion that liberals are uniquely biased, I'd like to know if anyone can cite an instance of similar blindness in conservatives? I suspect this is a human, rather than uniquely liberal failing, and that I just can't get around my own bias. Surely, someone else out there can?
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Comments:
Oct '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I agree. Either abortion is wrong, always, or it's not. I think it's wrong always.
Also, Maggie asked, but I don't think anyone answered: SSM=Same Sex Marriage.
Mar '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Maggie: I suppose I would caution against attempting to attribute one remark made by one caller on one talk radio show once upon a time as indicative of the “mindset” of all those on the Left, or as being a unique failing. In the same way, I would caution against listening to one or another talk show host on the political right and presume that that is the be all and end all of conservative philosophy or argument for or against anything.
It’s true that very many people hold contradictory ideas in their heads at any given time without realizing it, but that doesn’t mean that within any political theory or tradition there aren’t coherent explanations that could be articulated by someone less muddle headed.
And it is equally true that what appears on the surface to be a contradiction in thinking—say, being pro-life and simultaneously being pro-death penalty—could not be reconciled on a deeper level by introducing the qualifying premises that are go unsaid in some of our ordinary, off-hand, day to day discussions of a subject.
Feb '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
It's probably right that a conservative wouldn't have the best perspective on any blindness that they may have. I've been dying to sit down casually with a group of genuine, intelligent liberals so I can try and figure out *how* they hold their beliefs.
As to the "small steps" sub-topic, going for a "comprehensive" anything is dangerous and virtually guarantee's failure. Humanity is way too complex for comprehensive anything. Besides, taking leaps will more likely result in jumping off the cliff that if you take baby steps. Or... don't over-reach. Lets *start* with tort reform and real competition in health care and see *if* we need more.
Dec '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Liberals have the ability to hold an unlimited number of completely contradictory ideas in their incoherent minds at the same time. It's a disease.
Sep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
True, it was just one person, but it somehow seemed typical and brought to mind the NYT (I think) headline, "Prison Population Grows Despite Drop in Crime".
Albert Arthur, thanks for the answer. I should have known but went blank.
May '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I find conservatives have a tendency to spout truisms without then taking the time to address the second and third order effects of that truism.
For example: "Raise the retirement age [actually meaning raise the age at which Social Security and public pensions can be collected]" without also addressing the question "where are these people going to work since the taxes they've been forced to pay all their lives have effectively prevented them from adequately saving?"
Jul '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
We tend to confound arguments about the capital gains rate and the marginal rate on income. Lower means higher is a legit argument if capital gains are the subject.
Jul '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
How about immigration policy? I'm thinking Arizona. It's hard to advocate getting the boot heel of government off small business and demand they pony up to verify the status of their employees at the same time. It's also not difficult to hear mossy old big Labor arguments coming out of conservatives who stray beyond "enforce the existing law."
Nov '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Conservatives don't buy into the Keynesian argument that government spending results in a net increase in employment. Taking resources from the private sector usually costs more jobs than are created. In addition, resources are shifted from producing goods and services that people want to creating those they value less.
Currently, however, some conservatives are warning that proposed military spending cuts will cost jobs. While there are good reasons for maintaining a strong military, creating jobs isn't one of them.
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Paules, you hit on a good point. Democracy can't be given to anyone. Those that benefit from liberty must spill their own blood and treasure to secure their freedom. A third party - the USA - can't come in, spill our blood and treasure and hand freedom to anyone and have it succeed. Few nations are cut out for democracy because they refuse the sacrifice it will take to earn it. In our present case our forefathers spilled their blood and treasure for liberty, but we take it for granted and piss it away every chance we get to trade it for more entitlements paid for with the debt passed on to our children.
Mar '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
My husband calls this the problem of having policies rather than principles--they don't see how things connect, that if being armed decreases crime at protests, then perhaps it does in general. I can't think of a conservative example, but I saw another liberal one about an hour ago. I finally read the Slaughter article on women having it all. Toward the end she makes a good point that with our longer life expectancies, we need a new career arc timeline. While arguing that women could peak in their careers later and still have a while to work, she mentions that when people retire at traditional age, they often just start collecting retirement benefits and move to a second career. So would she then support later retirement ages, delay retirement benefits? Doing so would certainly help, say some of the cities going bankrupt in CA, but somehow I don't think she, or other liberals, would allow for benefit delays.
Sep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
While Japan seems to be an example of a non-Western country on whom the U.S. successfully imposed democracy, the more I learn, the more I am convinced that it is very unlikely that a representative republic such as ours (was?) could be achieved in a society that lacked our unique cultural heritage. If we see 1776 as the natural culmination of a few thousand years of judeo-helenic-Christian history and thought, how could we expect to graft it on to a different stock?
And a corollary, which has probbly had its own post or several: is it reasonable to think that our concept of religious liberty can extend to Islam, either abroad or here?
Oct '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I think you misrepresent the views of those of us who would allow an exception for rape and incest. While those children are just as innocent as the others, their numbers are infinitesimally (sp?) small in the grand scheme of things. So it's a political calculation, designed to save most of the aborted babies. We'll never outlaw abortion absolutely, but we can (conceivably...no pun intended) outlaw elective abortions not due to rape or incest. If the cost of saving a million babies is to sacrifice a thousand babies, and the alternative is not saving any of the babies, then that seems to me to be a good bargain overall.
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I've read Comments by Conservatives that people who simply agree with them are absolutely the Bees Knees and can do no wrong, including run for offices for which they are unsuited.
Which is why I want to punch John McCain in the nose, for picking a running mate who faced off a Featherweight like Katie Couric like a deer in the headlights.
You do gotta be this tall to ride the ride, no matter how much you agree with me, or even just send a thrill up my leg.
Also, Conservatives who are too hung up on being factual just do not get it. If you want to show a Liberal what happens when the business owners decide they are paying too damned much for those roads & such, do like the bad guy in Kentucky Fried Movie, and "take them to Detroit."
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Another glaring contradiction (though it's clearly a political machination) is how offended conservative act that Medicare/Medicaid is getting cut to prop up "Obamacare." Like that isn't completely transparent.
Apr '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Fantastic question Maggie.
First, I think it's generally more difficult for conservatives to hold completely contradictory positions because our views are ALWAYS being challenged and/or attacked. Also, liberals have little capacity to differentiate between crazy blog commenters and mainstream politicians. Maybe because on their side there is often little difference.
I do think the anti-Bush insanity of the Aughts knocked many of us off our game - myself included - and drove Republicans to circle the wagons on foreign policy. Rather than contending with thoughtful opposition we had to constantly counter hysteria, moral relativism and vile insinuations. It is way too easy to lose perspective on flaws within your own party when the alternative is outright insanity.
This is a great one. Back when Republicans discovered The Laffer Curve they excitedly thought they could now lower taxes AND dole out goodies and in the process severely damaged Republicans credibility to actually counter the welfare state.
Oct '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Edward Smith:
Which is why I want to punch John McCain in the nose, for picking a running mate who faced off a Featherweight like Katie Couric like a deer in the headlights.
You do gotta be this tall to ride the ride, no matter how much you agree with me, or even just send a thrill up my leg.
You seem to have conceded that liberal journos get to pick the yardstick with which we shall always measure height. One poorly answered question in one interview does not make a good case for forever letting your enemies define you. Palin had won state-wide office and was managing a $10B State budget. She'd taken on her own corrupt Republican establishment and beaten it. Do you think the US would be in better or worse shape right now if she were elected President in 2008 instead of Obama? I think the answer is obvious: better shape. I would suggest we not fall in with our elite media personalities when they work overtime to convince us that so-called hicks from Wasilla are to be denigrated while at the same time anointing well-educated fools from Harvard Law.
May '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
dittoheadadt
I think you misrepresent the views of those of us who would allow an exception for rape and incest. While those children are just as innocent as the others, their numbers are infinitesimally (sp?) small in the grand scheme of things. So it's a political calculation, designed to save mostof the aborted babies. We'll never outlaw abortion absolutely, but we can (conceivably...no pun intended) outlaw elective abortions notdue to rape or incest. If the cost of saving a million babies is to sacrifice a thousand babies, and the alternative is not saving anyof the babies, then that seems to me to be a good bargain overall. · 5 hours ago
Ah, a compromise to better distribute the death...got it. Sorry to misrepresent.
Oct '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Katie O
Ah, a compromise to better distribute the death...got it. Sorry to misrepresent.
Katie - you are certainly correct about the logical inconsistency of being against killing unborn children BUT accepting the same killing if the child's conception resulted from rape or incest. It's ridiculous on its face. But politics (and life in general) is full of inconsistencies. Here's a hypothetical: If you had it in your power to do so, would you really forgo a ban on partial birth abortion if it included an escape clause for rape and incest? Wouldn't you hungrily take that deal and continue to strive for an end to all abortion in the future?
To compare abortion with an earlier holocaust, if only one Nazi death camp could have been liberated before its actual liberation by allied troops would you have rejected it because other camps remained active?
Absolutism has a near perfect record of self-defeat.
May '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Wait... is that a bug, or a feature?