The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I don't even remember which talk show it was, but yesterday I heard this exchange:
Host (gross paraphrase): There have been many murders, rapes and robberies at the Occupy demonstrations and there have never been any at the Tea Party events.
Liberal Caller (darned close paraphrase): Well, sure, that's because everybody at Tea Party events is armed.
If this same caller were having a conversation about gun control, he would ridicule the fact-based opinion that when law-abiding citizens are armed, there is less crime.
Before I draw the conclusion that liberals are uniquely biased, I'd like to know if anyone can cite an instance of similar blindness in conservatives? I suspect this is a human, rather than uniquely liberal failing, and that I just can't get around my own bias. Surely, someone else out there can?
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Nov '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Sure there are: evolutionists, SSM proponents, non birthers, atheists, Palin dismissers, people who are afraid of being called racist, Libertarians on social issues ... Oh yes, pro abortion and assisted suicide fighters...one more- people who are afraid of being thought of as mean...Edited to add Taxers of the Internet.
It seems the real glue for being conservative is economics and generally speaking, smaller government.
Edited on July 28, 2012 at 4:15pmSep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
PracticalMary: Sure there are: evolutionists, SSM proponents, non birthers, atheists, Palin dismissers, people who are afraid of being called racist, Libertarians on social issues ... Oh yes, pro abortion and assisted suicide fighters...one more- people who are afraid of being thought of as mean...
It seems the real glue for being conservative is economics and generally speaking, smaller government. · 1 minute ago
I see what you mean (except, forgive me, but what is SSM?), but I guess I was looking for something in the economics/small government sphere, somewhere we apply a principle, but maybe the principle doesn't apply or is incorrectly formulated? I'm having trouble here getting at what I mean. I'm sort of at "I'm not sure what I'm lookiing for and will I even know it when I find it?"
Nov '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Wouldn't you need to ask a liberal audience that question... We're not likely to be able to identify which of our own faults we're blind to!
Some of it's human nature. We build assumptions often based on beliefs current in society, without realizing that some of them are illogical or inconsistent with each other.
I think liberals are more prone to the outrageous examples like that one -- but can't prove it. Once in a while, I see some poorly-thought through statements from conservatives on my facebook feed too.
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
That is the most intelligent thing I have heard a liberal caller say in forever. Amen.
Try to think of progressive thinking in terms of the Old Testament and idolatry. Progressives practice idolatory worshipping false gods of a strong centralized government.
Conservative tend to have the same unbending faith in individual liberty and therein the ability to worship as we see fit.
Sep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Leigh: Wouldn't you need to ask a liberal audience that question... We're not likely to be able to identify which of our own faults we're blind to!
Some of it's human nature. We build assumptions often based on beliefs current in society, without realizing that some of them are illogical or inconsistent with each other.
I think liberals are more prone to the outrageous examples like that one -- but can't prove it. Once in a while, I see some poorly-thought through statements from conservatives on my facebook feed too. · 1 minute ago
The trouble with asking a liberal audience is that--as per some recent thread on Ricochet, I believe--conservatives understand liberalism but liberals don't understand conservatism. Still, it's worth a shot, and I think I will pose the question to some of the liberals where I work when they come back from vacation and see what I get!
Sep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Yes, it was quite stunning, and the host was intent on the larger direction of the conversation and totally missed it.
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
The idea that selling insurance across state lines would be a panacea for the ills of healthcare is a pipe-dream, in my opinion. Tort reform too. Real healthcare reform is going to take much more than these.
Nov '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Maggie Somavilla
Leigh: Wouldn't you need to ask a liberal audience that question... We're not likely to be able to identify which of our own faults we're blind to!
Some of it's human nature. We build assumptions often based on beliefs current in society, without realizing that some of them are illogical or inconsistent with each other.
I think liberals are more prone to the outrageous examples like that one -- but can't prove it. Once in a while, I see some poorly-thought through statements from conservatives on my facebook feed too. · 1 minute ago
The trouble with asking a liberal audience is that--as per some recent thread on Ricochet, I believe--conservatives understand liberalism but liberals don't understand conservatism. Still, it's worth a shot, and I think I will pose the question to some of the liberals where I work when they come back from vacation and see what I get! · 6 minutes ago
If anybody says anything profitable or worth thinking about... let us know!
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Agree that these are not end all solutions. Ultimately I think we have to re-orient our thinking/market such that individuals take responsibility for health care expense, choices, and consequences of poor decisions.
That said the two issues you point out will help.
Sep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
BrentB67
Agree that these are not end all solutions. Ultimately I think we have to re-orient our thinking/market such that individuals take responsibility for health care expense, choices, and consequences of poor decisions.
That said the two issues you point out will help. · 2 minutes ago
Yes. I'm not sure anyone thinks those two important things are the whole solution or even most of it. Just steps in the right direction. Which is typical of the conservative approach, isn't it?
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Maggie Somavilla
BrentB67
Agree that these are not end all solutions. Ultimately I think we have to re-orient our thinking/market such that individuals take responsibility for health care expense, choices, and consequences of poor decisions.
That said the two issues you point out will help. · 2 minutes ago
Yes. I'm not sure anyone thinks those two important things are the whole solution or even most of it. Just steps in the right direction. Which is typical of the conservative approach, isn't it? · 3 minutes ago
I believe that merely taking a few small steps in the right direction is a
typical republican 'solution'. I am not a republican, I am conservative. I believe in solving the whole problem, not putting a different tie on it and hoping for the best.
Jun '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
BrentB67
Maggie Somavilla
BrentB67
I believe that merely taking a few small steps in the right direction is a
typical republican 'solution'. I am not a republican, I am conservative. I believe in solving the whole problem, not putting a different tie on it and hoping for the best. · 6 minutes ago
From my point of view the "conservative" solution is the one, that includes the minimum, only what is necessary and sufficient. It should depend on human nature, and encourage people to behave in a manner in their own selfish self interests.
These elements, selling across state lines, avoiding local mandates for coverage I don't need, and preventing nuisance law suits, along with making me, not my employer responsible for my health care would start that process in a rapid way. We are usually pleasantly surprised when we try the conservative solution how well it works. Trying at first blush to get a comprehensive solution risks being as bad or worse than the liberal one, since it almost always will work to compel what we think is best and avoid the messiness of a true market for health care services.
May '12
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
John Hanson
BrentB67
Maggie Somavilla
BrentB67
I believe that merely taking a few small steps in the right direction is a
typical republican 'solution'. I am not a republican, I am conservative. I believe in solving the whole problem, not putting a different tie on it and hoping for the best. · 6 minutes ago
From my point of view the "conservative" solution is the one, that includes the minimum, only what is necessary and sufficient. It should depend on human nature, and encourage people to behave in a manner in their own selfish self interests. ...
I agree. My idea of a comprehensive conservative solution is how many laws, rules, and regulations can be repealed. Start with the EMTALA.
Trying to half embrace free markets usually ends in a full scale disaster. We either have to be in the free market boat or on the statist dock, but one foot on the dock and one in the boat usually ends bad.
Nov '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I believe that many conservatives are inconsistent in their beliefs about our government’s capacity to micromanage things. On the one hand, they believe that the government is not competent to run our own nation’s economy (a belief I share), while at the same time believing that it is fully capable of running foreign economies (e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan). Once upon a time, conservatives advocated avoiding foreign entanglements. What changed?
Edited on July 28, 2012 at 7:55pmJun '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I'll go out on a limb here even if it sounds racist. The idea that democracy is a panacea for better government is simply wrong. I can point to Afghanistan and Egypt as manifest failures, but I'm really thinking about South Africa as a case in point. Apartheid was morally reprehensible, but majority rule hasn't improved the situation except for a few blacks in the new ruling class. Social and economic conditions for the majority are far worse now than they ever were under apartheid. It would seem a wiser course if we would establish some sort of criteria that might assess the chances for democracy to take root rather than applying the principle universally.
May '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I'll give you one I think obvious. Conservatives who are pro-life unless the child is a product of rape. Either it is wrong to kill unwanted innocents in the womb or it isn't. Making this concession, out of compassion for the rape victim, does not erase the violence done to her. It does blast a hole through their argument.
Dec '10
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Liberals aren't uniquely biased. They're uniquely thoughtless.
May '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
There is the conservative talking point that lower tax rates lead to increased (or at lease the same) tax revenue. This is often, but not always true. Depends on where you are on the curve.
Mar '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
I think you have found a true blind spot here ~Paules. We heard a great deal of this during the Bush Administration and we still do among many in the GOP. A number of whom appear to have forgotten, or never learned, that democracy without the bedrock of civil society equates to mob rule.
Edited on July 28, 2012 at 8:35pmSep '11
Re: The Closed Liberal (?) Mind
Yes, it is kind of a partner to the liberal "It's worth it if it saves one life" fallacy. Clearly there is some point between 0 and 100% of GDP where we would have to conclude that one life is not worth it. Just as clearly, there is some point between wherever we are and a 0% tax rate which would cease to increase revenue.