The Circular Firing Squad
Pat Caddell infamously refers to the Republicans as the "Party of Stupid" and witnessing the way the conservative media is reacting to the GOP primaries it's hard to make an argument against that assessment.
Here, in early December, it's pretty obvious how the race has evolved. Cain is history. He's just not a "NO" but a "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!" Bachmann, Santorum, Perry and Huntsman are stuck in the single-digits. Ron Paul has his loyal band, crucified on a cross of gold, silver dimes and isolationism. That leaves Gov. Romney and Speaker Gingrich.
It seems none of the conservative literati really likes Romney. He makes the reddest of the red blue through the cold winds that blow through his debate performance vs Ted Kennedy and his blue record in the blue state of Massachusetts. But they seem to like the former Speaker even less.
And here is where the damage is done. What happens if the primary voters don't agree with the commentariat and hands the nomination to Gringrich anyway?
What you get is a DNC dream ad, informing the independents and the swing voters just how "scary" Newt really is. Can't you see it now? As ominous music plays in the background, a woman's voice intones, "Even conservatives think a Gingrich presidency would be a disaster. Mark Steyn calls him, 'a lily-livered ninny whom everyone thinks is a ferocious right-wing bastard...' Ramesh Ponnuru says Gringrich 'is temperamentally unsuited for the presidency.' If Gingrich makes the people at National Review nervous, why should we put him in the White House? Barack Obama. Four more years of steady leadership..."
We, the Ricochet membership, are free to discuss the pros and cons of any candidacy. Nobody is going to say, "Don't vote for X! EJ Hill thinks he's nuts!" But the brightest lights in our universe? Why do they have to be so dim?
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Comments:
Feb '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Larry Koler
DrewInWisconsin
Do people like Rove and Murphy understand why Republicans won in 2010? The Republican establishment had all but given up, resigning themselves to minority status for another 40 years. It was the Tea Party movement that saved the GOP's bacon, and this is the thanks they got. · Dec 7 at 11:35am
So True! Of course, you're right. They had absolutely no solutions planned or even theorized. Rove and Murphy are mechanics. They need to stay out of the design shops. · Dec 7 at 11:40am
Mechanics staying out of the design shops will lead to beautiful pictures that don't work.
Jun '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Hang On
Larry Koler
DrewInWisconsin
Do people like Rove and Murphy understand why Republicans won in 2010? The Republican establishment had all but given up, resigning themselves to minority status for another 40 years. It was the Tea Party movement that saved the GOP's bacon, and this is the thanks they got. · Dec 7 at 11:35am
So True! Of course, you're right. They had absolutely no solutions planned or even theorized. Rove and Murphy are mechanics. They need to stay out of the design shops. · Dec 7 at 11:40am
Mechanics staying out of the design shops will lead to beautiful pictures that don't work. · Dec 7 at 11:46am
Point taken. But, people who aspire into areas they are not good at causes a lot of trouble. I should have said they are "just mechanics." As in not automatically qualified in other areas. They need to earn their place at the table. These particular mechanics are just functioning now as childish wreckers.
Feb '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Larry Koler
Hang On
Larry Koler
DrewInWisconsin
Point taken. But, people who aspire into areas they are not good at causes a lot of trouble. I should have said they are "just mechanics." As in not automatically qualified in other areas. They need to earn their place at the table. These particular mechanics are just functioning now as childish wreckers. · Dec 7 at 11:57am
Murphy and Rove are pussy cats compared to what Obama and his $1 billion are going to be throwing at whoever the GOP nominee is. If candidate x can't stand up to that now, I think that's very relevant information for GOP primary voters to know. Any candidate worth his salt should always form an opposing get the dirt team on himself and be honest with them and tell them where to look. Everybody has some kind of dirt if they've ever done anything. If he doesn't do this, he's going to be sideswiped by an October surprise that will work. Get it out early so it's old news by the time the election is decided in the last weekend before the election.
Jun '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Hang On
...
Murphy and Rove are pussy cats compared to what Obama and his $1 billion are going to be throwing at whoever the GOP nominee is. If candidate x can't stand up to that now, I think that's very relevant information for GOP primary voters to know. Any candidate worth his salt should always form an opposing get the dirt team on himself and be honest with them and tell them where to look. Everybody has some kind of dirt if they've ever done anything. If he doesn't do this, he's going to be sideswiped by an October surprise that will work. Get it out early so it's old news by the time the election is decided in the last weekend before the election.
We're not talking about "news" here, though -- we're talking about trying to damage a person's reputation. Real hard-ball unnecessary tactics.
But, I agree with you completely about real facts that are bad news or can be used in attacks by the other side.
Oct '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
I think Mitt has less of a chance of running a flaming disaster of a campaign compared to Newt, but I'll vote for either one of them and might even send whoever wins the primary some money. The stakes are too high to pout and sit on the sidelines.
If I could vote for McCain, I can certainly vote for Newt or Mitt. I'm grumpy that the GOP is going to be going with yet another substandard candidate, but I'm not stupid.
Feb '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Larry Koler
Hang On
We're not talking about "news" here, though -- we're talking about trying to damage a person's reputation. Real hard-ball unnecessary tactics.
But, I agree with you completely about real facts that are bad news or can be used in attacks by the other side. · Dec 7 at 12:27pm
OK. Real hard-ball tactics rather than "news". Again, it's not like Team Obama will not be doing this, and it again seems to me relevant to GOP voters to assess how candidate x is taking it. Do they handle it with humor and finesse (i.e., Reagan perfection) or do they get all weepy (like almost everybody but Reagan). That seems highly relevant information. So many people didn't run because it is such a rough game. But again, Murphy and Rove are nothing compared to what I suspect Team Obama are going to be, who are nothing compared to Team Putin, Team China, Team Iran, . . . are going to be.
Oct '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
EJHill What happens if the primary voters don't agree with the commentariat and hands the nomination to Gringrich anyway?
What you get is a DNC dream ad, informing the independents and the swing voters just how "scary" Newt really is. Can't you see it now?·
What I'm trying to envision, and what you of all people should be seeing, is the staggering wealth of material we have to use against Obama. And much of it can be clips of his own words. His pleading for the stimulus funds because otherwise unemployment could reach nine percent. His statement that if the economy hasn't come around in three years, he won't be re-elected.
I think that given his record and performance, the charges of his socialist mindset might find traction if presented artfully. They were deflected by a hard-working MSM last time around, but reminding people of the JournoList debacle could undermine much of that. When the Democrat's attack ads pick apart the Republican candidate in excruciating detail, why not counter with an ad questioning why Obama's ties to Ayers or Rev Wright were never looked into to any degree...word limit Looming.
Oct '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Cont.----I know their war chest will dwarf ours, but they have a fraction of our practically ready-made ads (It's great to have truth on your side). A short TV spot pointing out the obvious will defang any number of the boilerplate class-warfare points made by the Droner-in-Chief.
Dec '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Herkybird: Man I am sure glad I don't have to go into combat with some of you so-called "conservatives" ! I have never in my life seen a group so predisposed to preemptive surrender. ...
... Why don't you pick a candidate and get into the game? That's what I did. And if my guy doesn't get the top slot there's always Vice President ...
Maybe we are going to go down in 2012 but, if so, I intend to go down swinging. · Dec 7 at 9:06am
Herkybird, I completely agree your posts, there's been so much hand ringing that Liebestod was playing in the background. Who are you supporting?
Edited on December 7, 2011 at 10:54pmApr '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
I wish I had just a fraction of your confidence. If our nominee is Newt Gingrich, they have an abundance of ready-made ads (and the ads are, historically, more important than debate performances).
Aug '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
wmartin
I wish I had just a fraction of your confidence. If our nominee is Newt Gingrich, they have an abundance of ready-made ads (and the ads are, historically, more important than debate performances).
It doesn't matter who the Republican nominee is. That person will be absolutely savaged by Obama and his media attack dogs. Are you thinking that Newt will get it worse than Romney?
Oct '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
DrewInWisconsin
It doesn't matter who the Republican nominee is. That person will be absolutely savaged by Obama and his media attack dogs. Are you thinking that Newt will get it worse than Romney?
It's not like Obama can run on his record. The Obama campaign will be equally viscous regardless of who the Republicans nominate. If you want to pick Romney because you think he's a better executive, go for it, but picking him because Obama would have to go easier on him doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Apr '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
DrewInWisconsin
wmartin
It doesn't matter who the Republican nominee is. That person will be absolutely savaged by Obama and his media attack dogs. Are you thinking that Newt will get it worse than Romney? · Dec 7 at 1:26pm
Obviously, they are all going to get pounded. The attacks on Newt will work a lot better because he is a deeply unappealing man who can't even get people he worked with for years to support him. He was one of the most unpopular politicians in the country in the 90's for a reason. If Republican primary voters decide to pull the trigger on this, Newt will be that once again, and it will happen very quickly.
Edited on December 7, 2011 at 10:44pmApr '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Publius
DrewInWisconsin
It doesn't matter who the Republican nominee is. That person will be absolutely savaged by Obama and his media attack dogs. Are you thinking that Newt will get it worse than Romney?
It's not like Obama can run on his record. The Obama campaign will be equally viscous regardless of who the Republicans nominate. If you want to pick Romney because you think he's a better executive, go for it, but picking him because Obama would have to go easier on him doesn't seem reasonable to me. · Dec 7 at 1:33pm
It's not about "going easy" on someone. It's about whether the attacks will actually work or not. The attacks on Newt will work, the attacks on Romney will be more hit-and-miss.
Feb '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
wmartin
Publius
DrewInWisconsin
It's not about "going easy" on someone. It's about whether the attacks will actually work or not. The attacks on Newt will work, the attacks on Romney will be more hit-and-miss. · Dec 7 at 1:42pm
I think it's also a matter of Newt is his own worst enemy. It is a very real character trait and it will surface sooner or later to the detriment of those who are on his team. If it's in the primaries, it will be ok because it will mean somebody else is nominated. If it happens during the election, Obama wins. if it happens after the election, then Republicans will pay in 2014. If Murphy & Rove are trying to get it to surface before the primaries, then they are doing the Republicans a favor.
I would not argue that Romney is great or even particularly good. He's simply better than the other candidates in the field. And some good can come with a Romney presidency with a GOP House and Senate. Purely a judgment call on my part. And one I don't hold particularly firmly. How about that for tepidness?
May '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Larry Koler: .....................
The worst examples recently were what Rove, Murphy and others did to Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle. These people had already won their primaries when they were attacked most viciously. This helps pundits by making their predictions come true. But just think what could have been accomplished if Rove et al were truly interested in the party and in the country enough to set aside their childish rants. They should -- at the very least -- be silent.
................
Perhaps you can point out in verified detail what Rove and Murphy did to those two incompetent candidates (who never should have been nominated) to cause them to lose. Murphy was busy with the California campaign, and Rove actually tried to help Angle, and was turned down because her amateur staff was afraid they might lose control. O'Donnell was beyond saving. She is so self-promoting that she even blew her guest spot on Dennis Miller's show.
Idiots.
Dec '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
Duane Oyen
Larry Koler: .....................
The worst examples recently were what Rove, Murphy and others did to Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle. These people had already won their primaries when they were attacked most viciously... But just think what could have been accomplished if Rove et al were truly interested in the party and in the country enough to set aside their childish rants. ................
Perhaps you can point out in verified detail what Rove and Murphy did to those two incompetent candidates (who never should have been nominated) to cause them to lose. Murphy was busy with the California campaign, and Rove actually tried to help Angle, and was turned down because her amateur staff was afraid they might lose control. O'Donnell was beyond saving. She is so self-promoting that she even blew her guest spot on Dennis Miller's show.
Idiots.
[Ed.'s Note: Comment redacted due to unwarranted rudeness toward a Ricochet Contributor] In the 1980 primary, they surely would have supported any of the other candidates over Reagan, especially, Howard Baker, Bob Dole, George H. W. Bush, probably even, Lowell Weicker. If their RINO views had prevailed then, they would have engineered an epic historical disaster.
Edited on December 8, 2011 at 3:09amMar '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
I'm with Herky - we may think the primary is a civil war, but the enemy knows better - they are already fighting the real war. They are trying to shape the primary so that they can have the Republican candidate they think they can most easily defeat.
This is why the Republicans are the stupid party - they don't even know there is a war. Instead, they are still in the country club, squabbling over who will be the captain of the golf team.
Edited on December 7, 2011 at 11:53pmFeb '11
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
jetstream
[Ed.'s Note: Comment redacted] In the 1980 primary, they surely would have supported any of the other candidates over Reagan, especially, Howard Baker, Bob Dole, George H. W. Bush, probably even, Lowell Weicker. If their RINO views had prevailed then, they would have engineered an epic historical disaster. · Dec 7 at 2:43pm
Karl Rove worked for George H. W. Bush's 1980 presidential campaign, so that's not exactly conjecture. And one thing that is even funnier is that you probably don't realize that in 2000 Karl Rove was running George W. Bush's campaign and Mike Murphy was running Sen. McCain's campaign. So they're not exactly bed fellows.
Edited on December 8, 2011 at 3:14amJul '10
Re: The Circular Firing Squad
wmartin
DrewInWisconsin
wmartin
It doesn't matter who the Republican nominee is. That person will be absolutely savaged by Obama and his media attack dogs. Are you thinking that Newt will get it worse than Romney? · Dec 7 at 1:26pm
Obviously, they are all going to get pounded. The attacks on Newt will work a lot better because he is a deeply unappealing man who can't even get people he worked with for years to support him. He was one of the most successful politicians in the country in the 90's for a reason. If Republican primary voters decide to pull the trigger on this, Newt will be that once again, and it will happen very quickly.
FIXED.
People didn't like him because he was successful. That's human nature.
Name me a leader who everyone loved. Leaders by their very nature are polarizing figures. You don't get to be Speaker of the House without stepping on people's toes. Some of those people have a voice now...<shrug>
One thing I will say is that Dick Morris was brilliant in painting Newt as evil while working with him.
Edited on December 8, 2011 at 1:02am