The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I'm not a so-called "birther" and I don't have much sympathy for their point of view. Birth certificate legalisms aside, the fact that two Hawaiian newspapers published notices of Obama's birth in 1961 should be sufficient to pacify all those who aren't intentionally taking up residency in the fever swamps of this controversy. Apart from being empirically unsound, this point of view also damages the credibility of the Republican Party and the conservative movement in general. Those who don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories can try their hardest to differentiate themselves, but those distinctions are often lost on a broader public.
That being said, I would have been hard pressed to vote against a supposedly birther-inspired piece of legislation that just passed out of the Arizona Legislature. The bill simply requires presidential and vice presidential candidates to present the Arizona Secretary of State with proof of their eligibility for the offices they seek -- documentation proving their status as natural-born citizens of the United States.
My sympathy for this piece of legislation has nothing to do with the Obama contretemps. Rather, it has to do with the fact that legislation seeking to effectuate a constitutional provision for presidential eligbility seems like the height of common sense.
My question for our resident legal experts is whether it was necessary to take this action at the state level. Presidential elections are complicated matters -- while they are essentially federal in nature, they are conducted through the electoral mechanisms of the states. So is the only way to put the citizenship requirement into practice through 49 more state statutes like Arizona's? Or is its presence in the U.S. Constitution sufficient to move responsibility to the federal level? I await your responses.
- Comment (36)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (1)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments :
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Birthers, a little nutty; Arizona law, commendable.
I'm with you, Troy.
Edited on Apr 15, 2011 at 9:13pmJul '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Want a beer in a bar? ID required. Want to board a plane? ID required. Want to run for President? We'll take your word for it. I'm actually floored that evidently you can not only run but potentially get into office without anyone actually checking to see if you're even eligible for it.
Aug '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I would be a lot more sympathetic to the law if it were passed ten or twenty years ago. In the current context though it seems like an endorsement of a bizarre conspiracy theory about the sitting president.
Sep '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Well, the birthers may be nutty, but doesn't everyone find a little bit of schadenfraude in the spectacle of President Obama -- a man who (if you read Mr. Freddoso' ouevre carefully) had his fair share of fast break legalisms paving the way for his remarkably uncontested election victories, now having a group hostile to him evoke tenuous legalisms trying to get him thrown off the ballot?
Do you think he's spooked by the eerie last name "Ryan" acting like some type of eerie premonition of the ghosts of madras past?
May '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I sometimes think that Obama has spent the time and effort to litigate against the disclosure of his birth certificate in order to deliberately provoke half-witted suspicion from some of his opponents with the hope that their reputation as birthers will graft onto and discredit the character of his thoughtful, non-birther critics.
Apr '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Funny if you want to work at a plant with government contracts (Bendix for instance: manufactures parts for nuclear weapons) you have a back ground check by the FBI prior to employment, but vetting is not required for the position of POTUS? I think the law is just common sense, though the timing is certainly late.
May '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I believe he was born in Hawaii. In 1961, travel from Hawaii to Kenya was nearly impossible for people with limited cash. How many members of your family vacationed in hawaii in the early 60s?
Also, judging by sample Hawaii Birth Certificates online, there is nothing about religion on them (or anything else that would be interesting)
So why is BHO so shy about showing us his birth certificate?
Jun '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Regarding proof of birthplace, what official government requirement, of birthplace examination, did Obama skip that George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter did not all skip too? I don't know that Obama skipped any examination (of documents) that all those others had to provide.
Edited on Apr 15, 2011 at 9:50pmJun '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
outstripp: I believe he was born in Hawaii. In 1961, travel from Hawaii to Kenya was nearly impossible for people with limited cash. How many members of your family vacationed in hawaii in the early 60s?
Also, judging by sample Hawaii Birth Certificates online, there is nothing about religion on them (or anything else that would be interesting)
So why is BHO so shy about showing us his birth certificate? · Apr 15 at 9:45pm
Maybe they crossed out girl, and changed it to boy, after getting out the magnifying glass. Who knows?
Sep '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
You don't think Obama's hiding Elvis somewhere in Hawaii do you?
Sep '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Peter Robinson: Birthers, a little nutty; Arizona law, commendable.
I'm with you, Troy. · Apr 15 at 9:12pm
Edited on Apr 15 at 09:13 pm
So, it took a slightly "nutty" group of people for various state legislatures to heed this loophole and come up with this "commendable" legislation, huh? Funny how that happened...
I see nothing wrong with a job applicant being required to prove eligibility for that job--any job. This is required of ordinary folks all the time. Putting it this way sounds reasonable to me, not even a little nutty.
Mar '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
As a resident of AZ, I am glad they are trying to pass this, but it has the same problem as the Illegal Immigration Law they are trying to pass - preemption by something the Federal Govt. should be doing, but isn't ( I am a Scientist, not a Legal Scholar, dammit Jim).
Donald Trump has this exactly right, which is why he is leading in the Republican race.
Edited on Apr 15, 2011 at 10:10pmNov '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Troy Senik’s position, and apparently Peter Robinson’s as well, is schizophrenically inconsistent. They agree that a presidential candidate should be willing to produce the evidence that he or she is eligible. But Obama’s refusal to do that, well that’s OK. And if anyone questions this position, why they’re nutty.
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I contain multitudes." — Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
Edited on Apr 15, 2011 at 10:46pmApr '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I'm a school custodian and have to undergo FBI fingerprint verification and background check EVERY YEAR to keep my job (at MY OWN expense, I might add!). I find it incredible that a candidate for the position of POTUS would be allowed to balk at producing the requested documentation!
Having said that, I agree...kinda...with Michael Labeit. It seems that much of what BHO uses to keep the pot boiling is for that purpose alone. Just something to distract and diminish the credibility of his detractors.
I'm also glad that "The Donald" is pushing the issue. Allows the contenders with an actual chance to keep their hands "clean". And, I mean, WOW...wouldn't it be something if the "birthers" were correct? Would kind of spread egg on the faces of those charged with the vetting, huh!
Edited on Apr 15, 2011 at 10:41pmApr '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Troy, the one other thing I might mention is...I could place a notice in our local paper about YOUR birth, but that doesn't make it legitimate! Yeah, yeah, I know they get the info from the records of the hospitals, but is that an "official" document or just a notation given by the hospital?
Apr '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
etoiledunord: Regarding proof of birthplace, what official government requirement, of birthplace examination, did Obama skip that George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter did not all skip too? I don't know that Obama skipped any examination (of documents) that all those others had to provide. · Apr 15 at 9:48pm
Edited on Apr 15 at 09:50 pm
You didn't mention McCain, who, when questions were raised because he was born outside the U.S., did provide the proper documentation!
I don't think there was any substantial doubt about any of the others you mentioned...unless Texas isn't considered an official part of the union. (I know they have talked about leaving recently, but I don't think it's official yet! Georgia? I'm not sure. )
The thing that disturbs me most is that this ISN'T being made a big deal. Hells belles! We're only talking about the office of the President of the United States! The requirements are in the Constitution! Don't we have the right to know the truth...finally?
Dec '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I have a question: Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, but at which hospital? His State-issued Certificate of Live Birth (by the way, that's the official name for a birth certificate) doesn't happen to mention it. It is only a printout of a few records from his original Certificate of Live Birth that were transcribed into the State database, and for some reason no one transcribed the hospital name. The newspaper announcements also don't say. No surprise there: the newspapers were only working off the listing they got from the Clerk-Recorder's office. It's not like any newspaper reporter spoke to Mr. or Mrs. Obama. Heck, Obama himself gave two different answers to the question during the campaign. He pointed out one hospital as his birthplace to one reporter, then changed it to the other hospital in later interviews. So, stipulating that he was born in Honolulu, in which hospital was Obama born? That's got to be a really easy question to answer, isn't it? And one he's already answered... but evidently doesn't know the actual answer to.
May '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
I think Obama's non-disclosure may be bait to make Republicans look stupid.
Aug '10
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
My observation is that in Europe "Birthers" are regarded as lunatics (and Republicans by association) while "Truthers " are acceptable in polite society, even mainstream society. In fact I recently heard Ireland's leading broadcaster casually assert that the Bush Administration had advance warning of 9/11- thankfully his guest, while no fan of Bush, pulled him up on that and said if any President was to blame for the rise of Al Qaeda, it was Clinton. On a scale of 1 to 10 ( with 10 being the nuttiest) I would put Birthers at 7 or 8. Truthers are off the scale. A President being unable or unwilling to prove his birth in the US would be serious,and would provoke a Constitutional crisis, perhaps without precedent. But a President complicit in mass murder of his own people for political gain or to justify a war (or wars) would be a crime and scandal of epic proportions and terrible consequences; and the conspiracy- theory that that was the case is so flat-out mad that those who propose it should be scorned and the Party with whom they most associate should be ridiculed for that association. But they are not. On the contrary...
Mar '11
Re: The Birthers' Broken Clock is Right
Charles:
In Europe, Republicans are regarded as lunatic - period.
Europeans are Truthers, as are those in the Middle East (with the exception of Israel) - period.
Edited on Apr 16, 2011 at 12:00am