The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire Berlinski, Ed. ·
Oct 28, 2011 at 8:24pm
If you were serious, really serious, about increasing corruption in the construction sector, how would you go about it? Let's brainstorm, here, using all we know about techniques for enhancing corruption, cronyism and bad governance. I think your plan would look a lot like this, wouldn't it?
Following a magnitude 7.2 earthquake that rocked the southeastern province of Van on Sunday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan announced the government would embark on a comprehensive state-sponsored construction plan to build safe and sustainable cities in the face of the earthquake reality.
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May '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
If they're really really serious, really serious, they'll undertake a pilgrimage to Cook County, the beating heart of the kakistocratic People's Republic of Illinois to study at the feet of the masters.
Edited on Oct 28, 2011 at 8:30pmDec '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Nick Stuart: If they're really really serious, really serious, they'll undertake a pilgrimage to Cook County, the beating heart of the kakistocratic People's Republic of Illinois to study at the feet of the masters. · Oct 28 at 8:28pm
Edited on Oct 28 at 08:30 pm
Have you ever seen Detroit? Chicago may have mastered corruption, but for a true kakistocracy, come to Detroit. The Daleys at least got things done.
Jul '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire, it's what you've been advocating for forever. He's made the pledge, now follow up every little aspect and hold feet to the fire.
Some people just won't take yes for an answer!
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Will they put some sort of label on the buildings built under this program? Because I really don't want to ever go in one. I'd trust 17th-century Ottoman buildings more…
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Sisyphus: Claire, it's what you've been advocating for forever. He's made the pledge, now follow up every little aspect and hold feet to the fire.
Some people just won't take yes for an answer! · Oct 28 at 9:24pm
What I've been calling for is the enforcement of the code that has been on the books since 1999, and for the real, meaningful punishment of those who break those laws. People here need more secure property rights, not less.
Oct '11
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sisyphus: Claire, it's what you've been advocating for forever. He's made the pledge, now follow up every little aspect and hold feet to the fire.
Some people just won't take yes for an answer! · Oct 28 at 9:24pm
What I've been calling for is the enforcement of the code that has been on the books since 1999, and for the real, meaningful punishment of those who break those laws. People here need more secure property rights, not less. · Oct 28 at 9:45pm
More secure property rights would be great for the Turks, but AKP welfare is more important.
Now Erdogan will have a big bag of cash where to take money from, a giant housing program to use to buy votes and the perfect crony feeding program.
Mar '11
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Nick Stuart: If they're really really serious, really serious, they'll undertake a pilgrimage to Cook County, the beating heart of the kakistocratic People's Republic of Illinois to study at the feet of the masters. · Oct 28 at 8:28pm
Edited on Oct 28 at 08:30 pm
Absolutely, Nick. The Turkish Government is going to need a lot of building inspectors to oversee the reconstruction and enforce the code. They will be able to figure out a way to adapt wrought-iron fencing deals to all kinds of reconstruction projects. And in order to bring in supplies and remove debris, you are going to need trucks.
One can only see 1/10th of an iceberg. The difference between an iceberg and Chicago corruption is that the iceberg isn't trying to hide.
May '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
But Claire, it doesn't need to be the rule of Turkish law. The key think is inspection and certification of buildings, and that this certification feeds into value. The steps I would see would be as follows:
May '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
(contd)
Issues:
Strengths:
I will be interested in the alternatives others put forward.
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Samuel Amaral
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sisyphus: Claire, it's what you've been advocating for forever. He's made the pledge, now follow up every little aspect and hold feet to the fire.
Some people just won't take yes for an answer! · Oct 28 at 9:24pm
What I've been calling for is the enforcement of the code that has been on the books since 1999, and for the real, meaningful punishment of those who break those laws. People here need more secure property rights, not less. · Oct 28 at 9:45pm
More secure property rights would be great for the Turks, but AKP welfare is more important.
Now Erdogan will have a big bag of cash where to take money from, a giant housing program to use to buy votes and the perfect crony feeding program. · Oct 29 at 3:34am
I see you've got a feel for how it works. You've done business in Turkey, I take it?
Jul '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sisyphus: Claire, it's what you've been advocating for forever. He's made the pledge, now follow up every little aspect and hold feet to the fire.
Some people just won't take yes for an answer! · Oct 28 at 9:24pm
What I've been calling for is the enforcement of the code that has been on the books since 1999, and for the real, meaningful punishment of those who break those laws. People here need more secure property rights, not less.
However you look at it, there is this huge body of existing building stock not built to code that needs to be replaced before the next big one to avoid catastrophe. Enforcing codes starting today gets a couple of percent of new construction up to snuff. And then the majority of folks who do not get it will avoid the safer buildings and cling to the death traps as the costs show up in rents and sales prices.
Intractable problems rarely have tidy solutions, especially in politics. Erdogan is pandering to a sudden realization of the threat. Wield that realization like a club, that's what the press does.
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
You're right, of course. I'm just demoralized by this to the point that I've begun to understand why no one in Turkey even tries to fight anymore. It's interesting to see how that happens. It's so incomprehensible at first.
Oct '11
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Samuel Amaral
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
What I've been calling for is the enforcement of the code that has been on the books since 1999, and for the real, meaningful punishment of those who break those laws. People here need more secure property rights, not less. · Oct 28 at 9:45pm
More secure property rights would be great for the Turks, but AKP welfare is more important.
Now Erdogan will have a big bag of cash where to take money from, a giant housing program to use to buy votes and the perfect crony feeding program. · Oct 29 at 3:34am
I see you've got a feel for how it works. You've done business in Turkey, I take it? · Oct 29 at 4:42am
Never been to Turkey, the whole thing just give me an air of deja vu, since back home corrupt is normal.
From the general to the specific it all depends on Turkish political realities and from there I differ for those who know.
May '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Sisyphus
However you look at it, there is this huge body of existing building stock not built to code that needs to be replaced before the next big one to avoid catastrophe. Enforcing codes starting today gets a couple of percent of new construction up to snuff. And then the majority of folks who do not get it will avoid the safer buildings and cling to the death traps as the costs show up in rents and sales prices.
That's why you need certification surveys during construction, and safety inspections for buildings already in use. Claire has been banging her head against a wall to get people to take notice of basic precautions - that's good in itself, but once people take notice, you need specific steps they can take: inspect for these specific issues, carry out these specific remediations.
Now, once you've identified that the building is unsafe, and that no-one can afford to upgrade it, you have another problem. But even being that aware would be a move away from fatalism.
May '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Now watch the cost of insurance go up accordingly with the increase in government activity. Time to dump the Turkish insurance stocks Claire.
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Samuel Amaral Never been to Turkey, the whole thing just give me an air of deja vu, since back home corrupt is normal.
From the general to the specific it all depends on Turkish political realities and from there I differ for those who know. · Oct 29 at 7:26am
The precision with which you diagnosed exactly what this means made me feel a real kinship with you, though. You instantly got it. I suppose it always follows the same pattern.
Jul '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Robert Dammers
That's why you need certification surveys during construction, and safety inspections for buildings already in use. Claire has been banging her head against a wall to get people to take notice of basic precautions - that's good in itself, but once people take notice, you need specific steps they can take: inspect for these specific issues, carry out these specific remediations.
Now, once you've identified that the building is unsafe, and that no-one can afford to upgrade it, you have another problem. But even being that aware would be a move away from fatalism. · Oct 29 at 7:27am
My intent was not to correct or contend with your earlier post. Spent my youth in and around the construction trade, and am not enthusiastic about "mitigated" buildings on general principle. From Claire's work I come away with the impression that the problem is not a lack of certifications and inspections, but rather a cultural fatalism that such are occasions to line pockets rather than mitigate engineering concerns.
These concerns are not unique to Turkey, they arise in the West as well, if to a much lesser extent. In the trade, builders know who to grease to make "technicalities" disappear.
Edited on Oct 29, 2011 at 11:53amMay '10
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
I only made the observation because third party certification has been fantastic in making the North Sea safer. But I'm always ready to be corrected.
Story of my life :(
Oct '11
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Claire, I followed your linx and read the comments to the article in Sunday's Zaman. Had a giggle at the breathless one touting "Less roads, more parks, more trains and maglev transport. Solar Energy." Lots of elevenses!
A couple of questions, since you're a Turkish current. 1) maglev: A magically levitated Magyar?, 2) (Srsly) is this paper really read and written by real Turks, or is it just for tourist rubes like some bazaar stall in Antalya?
Re: The Best Pro-Corruption Program I've Seen in Years
Barfly: Claire, I followed your linx and read the comments to the article in Sunday's Zaman. Had a giggle at the breathless one touting "Less roads, more parks, more trains and maglev transport. Solar Energy." Lots of elevenses!
A couple of questions, since you're a Turkish current. 1) maglev: A magically levitated Magyar?, 2) (Srsly) is this paper really read and written by real Turks, or is it just for tourist rubes like some bazaar stall in Antalya? · Oct 30 at 1:42am
The latter.