The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Troy Senik ·
October 7, 2011 at 7:28pm
... comes from my City Journal California colleague Ben Boychuk, writing over at the Manhattan Institute's Public Sector Inc. blog (where I'm also a contributor) on the west coast iterations of these protests:
What to make of all this? The movement's manifesto (to say nothing of this unofficial list of demands) reads like a Marxist child's letter to a Santa Claus his doctrinaire parents forgot to tell him doesn't exist. Rather than a genuine populist uprising, more accurate to call these demonstrations a novel exercise in the ancient art of political street theater. Nothing against street theater, of course.
Just perfect.
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Comments:
May '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
As we say down South, "Dang."
Aug '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
We can sneer at these people all we want. But it might be instructive to get out of our conservative bubble and talk to some moderate blue-collar and middle-class people who aren't immersed in politics every day.
I've done just that over the past week; talking to several small-business owners and various low-paid service providers. I applied a litmus test: illegal immigration. To a person, they were furious that the state and federal governments haven't sealed the border. So these weren't starry-eyed liberals.
What I found is that the "occupation" movement's message of an American economy and an American political system rigged against the middle class is resonating quite loudly. None of these people recognized the term crony capitalism, but they know it when they see it. And they blame Republicans and Democrats equally.
It's hard to know where this all leads, but it behooves us to pay attention, rather than smugly dismiss it.
Jul '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Tom Paine,
You are both right and wrong simultaneously. You are right that we should pay attention to these people because they are showing us what is wrong with our system of education. Having watched dozens of interview with folks from this 'occupation,' they have so far proven to be completely ignorant of the way the real world works. They profess to hate 'the system' but cannot explain how that system works. We must pay attention to them so that we know how to correct the horrible misconceptions that they have.
You are however wrong in the sense that paying attention to them is exactly what they want. These people are attention seekers who are baffled by the real exercise of political protesting which takes place on the right. We should not give them the attention that they so desire, it will only lead to more mindless, useless, uninformed protesting in the future.
On your other point about going to the 'coal face', as the English put it, I am a small business owner and struggling writer. It warms my heart to hear that someone like yourself is taking the time to hear what we 'little people' have to say.
Jan '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
I see it as young people, full of information but lacking real-time verification. That would lead to a cognitive dissonance in a generation full of passion and energy, not knowing why they feel as they do, but feeling nevertheless with passionate intensity. With all of their so-called "education," they have no firm idea of what's wrong, who's to blame, or how to fix it.
Yeats nailed it.
May '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
My initial reaction to the Wall Street location was Tom Paine's- a long record of abuses of free markets by secretive, influence-peddling, other-people's-money conduct by the big banks going back to Continental Illinois in the '70's is hated by real people. I remember three different iterations of when CitiCorp got itself into big trouble by looking for big, easy, high-bonus-execs payoffs- for example, they lent piles of money to South American countries such as Argentina, and got stiffed.
I fear that the GOP is using the WS disaffection for Obama to get its own WS campaign cash and thus not looking at the necessary real reform- most not favorable to the WS crowd denizens- that is needed in place of Dodd-Frank and SOx.
But I think that the Occupy gang, even with Legacy Media promotion, has overplayed its hand with the protests all around the country, hiring protestors, busing in union types, and not purging the ANSR Marxists (or at least censoring the signs).
There was a developing disquiet about TEA Parties, because of the big WH campaign. Occupy has completely neutralized that- the public will ignore both sides.
Aug '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
J.Voss: Tom Paine,
On your other point about going to the 'coal face', as the English put it, I am a small business owner and struggling writer. It warms my heart to hear that someone like yourself is taking the time to hear what we 'little people' have to say. · Oct 7 at 11:23am
Excuse me? I don't see them as "little people". I have done lots of low-paid service work in my time and am a small-business owner myself.
I simply took the time to step out of my conservative circle to talk to people who are, for the most part, non-political.
Apr '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
This whole OWS protest just proves the statistical reality that in any population half the people are, by definition, below average.
Jul '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Tom Paine
Excuse me? I don't see them as "little people". I have done lots of low-paid service work in my time and am a small-business owner myself.
I simply took the time to step out of my conservative circle to talk to people who are, for the most part, non-political. · Oct 7 at 11:35am
That was not intended as an insult or a slight. Unfortunately levity doesn't translate terribly well over the wires. I count myself among the people we are discussing and don't disparage anyone the work that they do. You have my apologies for the confusion.
Aug '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
J.Voss
Tom Paine
Excuse me? I don't see them as "little people". I have done lots of low-paid service work in my time and am a small-business owner myself.
I simply took the time to step out of my conservative circle to talk to people who are, for the most part, non-political. · Oct 7 at 11:35am
That was not intended as an insult or a slight. Unfortunately levity doesn't translate terribly well over the wires. I count myself among the people we are discussing and don't disparage anyone the work that they do. You have my apologies for the confusion. · Oct 7 at 11:55am
Thanks for clearing that up.
Jul '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Tom Paine
Thanks for clearing that up. · Oct 7 at 11:59am
But of course, I hate leaving things unclear.
On another note, is anyone else here getting tired of the 'Occupy Wall Street' to TEA Party comparisons? I have one very liberal friend who I have been slowly 'educating' over the last few years and he keeps shoveling that tripe about how they are the same. Am I totally blind or is the comparison really as silly as I seem to think it is?
Jun '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Troy Senik
More likely a letter to Grandfather Frost, who "travels throughout Russia, bringing gifts on the non-religious holiday of New Year's."
Aug '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
J.Voss
Tom Paine
Thanks for clearing that up. · Oct 7 at 11:59am
But of course, I hate leaving things unclear.
On another note, is anyone else here getting tired of the 'Occupy Wall Street' to TEA Party comparisons? I have one very liberal friend who I have been slowly 'educating' over the last few years and he keeps shoveling that tripe about how they are the same. Am I totally blind or is the comparison really as silly as I seem to think it is? · Oct 7 at 12:02pm
I can understand why liberals would make that comparison. The huge difference between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street, of course, is that Tea Partiers stand on Constitutional principles, while the OWS crowd would tear up the Constitution in a heartbeat in order to achieve their Marxist goals.
But don't expect your liberal friend to understand that.
Dec '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
I think a big part of this whole thing is just that the urge to protest hasn't been satisfied for a while, and the trustafarians are getting bored.
All during the Bush years, International ANSWER (a front group for the Workers World Party) put on big protest bashes in the larger US cities. College students and gray ponytail-types all got together and had a great time saving the world.
But we have a far-left ideologue in the Oval Office now. The global socialist movement isn't organizing and bankrolling big movements like this against Obama. I think this is why these protesters don't have anything to say; usually, the message comes from the top and gets repeated by the groundlings. Left to themselves, the groundlings just protest for the fun of it.
Jul '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
The two aren't really comparable. OWS is built on the organizational infrastructure from the permanent traveling WTO/IMF/World Bank/G8 protests. Actually, it goes further back than that - I can remember seeing protests against the Gulf War that involved the same organizations. OWS makes a big deal about the unions ("ordinary workers") swelling their ranks, but people forget that the unions also marched with the commies in Seattle back in '99.
The Tea Party was remarkable in its spontaneity. It's not like there was a long-established group of right-wing street marchers who suddenly took up the Tea Parrty banner.
May '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Wylee Coyote
The two aren't really comparable. OWS is built on the organizational infrastructure from the permanent traveling WTO/IMF/World Bank/G8 protests. Actually, it goes further back than that - I can remember seeing protests against the Gulf War that involved the same organizations. OWS makes a big deal about the unions ("ordinary workers") swelling their ranks, but people forget that the unions also marched with the commies in Seattle back in '99.
...................
The question is not whether they are comparable- it is whether there is a public perception built that they are comparable.
Apr '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
I like what Jonah wrote in this weeks Goldberg File:
It's really intriguing how the policy differences are informed by cultural differences. The twentysomethings haven't paid much, if anything, in taxes and have received more than they've given. The Tea Partiers tend to be older and have spent a lot of time paying into the system. They resent paying for handouts. The Occupy Wall Streeters resent not getting them. And their definition of greed is not merely wanting to keep your own money, but resisting when others try to take it from you.
Jun '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Give Me Liberty:
The Tea Partiers tend to be older and have spent a lot of time paying into the system. They resent paying for handouts. The Occupy Wall Streeters resent not getting them. And their definition of greed is not merely wanting to keep your own money, but resisting when others try to take it from you.
Agreed. For example, here is one of their demands:
"Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period."
I'm not a big fan of the rent-seeking aspects of Wall Street. But is it possible to take seriously any movement that would make such an insane demand?
Jun '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Tom Paine: We can sneer at these people all we want. But it might be instructive to get out of our conservative bubble and talk to some moderate blue-collar and middle-class people who aren't immersed in politics every day.
* * * *
What I found is that the "occupation" movement's message of an American economy and an American political system rigged against the middle class is resonating quite loudly. None of these people recognized the term crony capitalism, but they know it when they see it. And they blame Republicans and Democrats equally.
It's hard to know where this all leads, but it behooves us to pay attention, rather than smugly dismiss it. · Oct 7 at 11:03am.
TP, your characterization of the movement's "message" is way more coherent than anything I've heard coming out of the "movement" itself.
I agree we need to be mindful of growing middle class frustration with the economy (frustration I hope translates into huge repudiation of the Community Organizer in Chief in 13 months). But that doesn't free us of our obligation to sneer at the goofballs "occupying" various places in the name of utter nonsense.
Mar '11
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
"Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period."
I love this. While it is impossible to justify all of the shenanigans of crony capitalists, "Demand Eleven" is utter insanity. If it was possible for these left wing loons to freeze and starve in the dark without dragging the rest of us down with them, it would be a very good thing.
I fervently hope these idiots can keep it up until November 2012.
Jul '10
Re: The Best Line Yet About the Occupy Wall Street Protests ...
Duane Oyen
The question is not whether they are comparable- it is whether there is a public perception built that they are comparable. · Oct 7 at 1:51pm
If so, we better keep busy pointing out the ways that they aren't comparable. :)