The Angry Hausfrau
I'll do this only once every 25 years, I promise, but I thought my friends here at Ricochet might enjoy seeing this page from the notebook I used when I visited Berlin in April 1987 to research the President's speech. The page shows notes I took at the dinner party that two West Berliners, Dieter and Ingeborg Elz, hosted for me.
Take a look at note 17, in which I scribbled down a comment by Ingeborg--the comment that, back at the White House, I adapted, making it the central line of President Reagan's address. Somehow, it has always seemed fitting that the inspiration for "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall," came from a Berliner--as it happened, a lovely, gracious Berliner, who had become, when she spoke of the wall, suddenly angry.
Yesterday, by the way, I gave the Elzes a call to say hello. Now in their eighties, they were about to leave Berlin for three weeks of hiking in the mountains in Austria--"slow hiking," as Dieter explained, chuckling.
(For a more detailed view, click here.)
- Comment (20)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (1)
Comments:
Mar '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Few of us will know what it is to nudge history forcefully enough to change her course. Thank you for sharing the details of your encounter, Peter. Fascinating.
May '10
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Thank you Peter. That speech gave me chills when I was not yet a man. Thank you for helping a great man find the right words on that day.
May '10
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
You do know that the term "Berliner" actually refers to a beer brand, right? Look it up. I am not lying.
And also a pastry like a donut.
Edited on June 13, 2012 at 2:21amFeb '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Peter Robinson
I'll do this only once every 25 years, I promise, but …
As my historian friend always says, “yes, of course I love catching glimpses behind the scenes of some of the most historic moments in history. But I can only take so much of it.”
Wait, maybe that’s not what he said …
Apr '12
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
You'll disappoint a great many Ricochet members if you only do this every 25 years.
Apr '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
PJS: You do know that the term "Berliner" actually refers to a beer brand, right? Look it up. I am not lying.
And also a pastry like a donut. · 8 hours ago
Edited 8 hours ago
And PJS, you do know that the term "Danish" in English is a type of pastry? But the word Danish doesn't thereby cease to refer to the country Denmark. Words often have more than one usage and intelligent people are capable of discerning the intended meaning.
And so it is with the words "Berliner", "Frankfurter", "Wiener", "Hamburger" etc in German. In German the adjective / demonym of a city is formed by adding -er to the name of the city. An inhabitant of Berlin is a Berliner, an inhabitant of Frankfurt is a Frankfurter, an inhabitant of Vienna (Wien in German) is a Wiener, an inhabitant of Hamburg is a Hamburger, and so on.
And lo and behold! Foodstuffs and beverages associated with certain cities and which comply with the rules of German grammar will also bear the same name as a human inhabitant of that city. Speakers of German know this. It's no big secret.
Edited on June 13, 2012 at 12:33pmFeb '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
"Somehow, it has always seemed fitting that the inspiration for "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall," came from a Berliner--as it happened, a lovely, gracious Berliner, who had become, when she spoke of the wall, suddenly angry."
A Berliner.
People from Berlin don't call themselves Berliners, Croix du Sud.
Sep '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Croix du Sud
PJS: You do know that the term "Berliner" actually refers to a beer brand, right? Look it up. I am not lying.
And also a pastry like a donut. · 8 hours ago
Edited 8 hours ago
And PJS, you do know that the term "Danish" in English is a type of pastry? But the word Danish doesn't thereby cease to refer to the country Denmark. Words often have more than one usage and intelligent people are capable of discerning the intended meaning.
And so it is with the words "Berliner", "Frankfurter", "Wiener", "Hamburger" etc in German. In German the adjective / demonym of a city is formed by adding -er to the name of the city.
Dave Barry once had some fun with Kennedy's, "I am a jelly donut". I know no German, so this takes some nerve, but I have a guess: When he said, "Ich bin ein (?) Berliner", he was a jelly donut. If he had omitted the article and said, "Ich bin Berliner", it would have meant, "I am a Berliner." Would someone confirm or deny?
Sep '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Peter, is Ingeborg appropriately impressed with her role in history?
And, yes, I'm with Neolibertarian: Please don't wait another 25 years.
Feb '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Maggie Somavilla,
You don't use "ein" (indefinite article) before a nationality or a profession in German. And for nationality you would put on an "in" ending to indicate you were a female. So assuming you're an American, you would say "Ich bin Amerikaner" or "Ich bin Amerikanerin" to indicate you're an American.
Sep '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Hang On: Maggie Somavilla,
You don't use "ein" (indefinite article) before a nationality or a profession in German. And for nationality youwould put on an "in" ending to indicate you were a female. So assuming you're an American, you would say "Ich bin Amerikaner" or "Ich bin Amerikanerin" to indicate you're an American. · 14 minutes ago
That was my guess (based on it being the case in Spanish also). If I understand you then, Dave Barry was correct in saying that JFK called himself a pastry by using the indefinite article where he should not have?
Oct '10
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Mr. Robinson: I was in high school from 1980-1983. At a certain point I thought I wanted to join the Air Force, because that was the service most interesting to me (and the F-15 Eagle is too sexy for words to a geek like me). Nevermind that there are no 6'4", blind-as-a-bat fighter jocks. I went so far as to study Russian for a year. The thought that the Soviet Union would fall, let alone in my lifetime, seemed about as realistic as the idea that the Enterprise's ship's navigator would be Russian. Or that her chief security officer would be Klingon.
It's enough of a blessing that I was laughably, hideously wrong. Thank God for that. How much more of a blessing is it to have been a participant in changing the world in a way that had people literally dancing in the streets, songs written, speeches made, borders redrawn, elections held?
I guess I'd have to ask someone who was there. Someone like you.
Oct '10
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Yes. "I am a jelly doughnut."
Having taken my hesslich German to Austria some years ago now, I can attest to the fact (well, with my one data point, anyway) that at least in Salzburg, the Austrians are very pleased when anyone even makes an attempt to speak their language, and are praeternaturally forgiving of mistakes, even quite large ones.
Mar '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Paul Snively
Yes. "I am a jelly doughnut."
Having taken myhesslichGerman to Austria some years ago now, I can attest to the fact (well, with my one data point, anyway) that at least in Salzburg, the Austrians are very pleased when anyone even makes an attempt to speak their language, and are praeternaturally forgiving of mistakes, even quite large ones.
Correct and correct: "Ich bin ein Berliner" would be more likely understood as "I am a doughnut," but Germans are certainly happy at any attempt to speak their language.
Nonetheless, on my first day in Germany, my host father came down to the breakfast table, put a big frosted jelly doughnut on my plate and loudly proclaimed "ich bin ein Berliner!!" followed by about 5 minutes of guffaws at my cluelessness about the double entendre. 30 years later, that joke still had legs.
Apr '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
As they say: a little learning is a dangerous thing!
This is probably not the forum for a lengthy lesson in German (I speak fluent German, have lived and studied in Germany and Austria, and worked as a translator) but the comments here on Kennedy, citizens of Berlin and jam (or what you Americans call jelly) doughnuts are not correct.
It is commonly asserted that by including the indefinite article Kennedy referred to himself as a doughnut but without it he would have been referring to himself as a citizen of Berlin. There is some basis to the assertion -- viz. a citizen of Berlin would say "ich bin Berliner" and not "ich bin ein Berliner" -- but ultimately what Kennedy said was correct (although in a very thick American accent) and his detractors are wrong. But the statement does lend itself to a pun.
"Ich bin Berliner" is correct and "Ich bin ein Berliner" incorrect if you are making a literal statement (which Kennedy was not). "Ich bin ein Berliner" is correct and "Ich bin Berliner" incorrect if you are expressing a metaphorical identification between subject and predicate (as Kennedy indeed was).
You can read more about it here and here.
Edited on June 14, 2012 at 2:05amApr '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Hang On: .
People from Berlin don't call themselves Berliners, Croix du Sud. · 10 hours ago
Au contraire! In German they most certainly do. Try googling the collocation "wir Berliner" (= German for 'we Berliners'). You will find reference to a classic speech in which Ernst Reuter (mayor of West Berlin 1948-53) said in front of the ruined Reichstag building in 1948:
"Wir wollen nur eines klar sagen: In all diesem Handeln und Verhandeln wollen wir Berliner kein Tauschobjekt sein!"
(emphasis added).
What's that? The mayor of West Berlin, a German and an inhabitant of Berlin referring to the people of Berlin as Berliner (in this case in the plural)?! Can I in the most polite way possible say that you don't know what you're talking about, Hang On? If you speak any German I suggest you read the whole of Reuter's speech. Not only is it a great read, Reuter in fact uses the word Berliner on several occasions to refer to the inhabitants of Berlin. I also suggest you read my post above and the articles linked to there.
Please, please, please can we finally lay this Kennedy Berliner misconception to rest?
Edited on June 14, 2012 at 5:29amSep '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Croix du Sud
Please, please, please can we finally lay this Kennedy Berliner misconception to rest? · 2 hours ago
Edited 1 hour ago
Happily, and I thank you for the explanation!
Apr '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Maggie Somavilla
I thank you for the explanation!
Happy to oblige. Just so it's 100% clear for everyone:
(1) A person who is literally a citizen of Berlin would say "ich bin Berliner".
(2) A person who is not literally a citizen of Berlin but who in an expression of solidarity wanted to make the metaphorical statement that he is would say "ich bin ein Berliner".
(3) A person who wanted to say that he is a jam (AmE: jelly) doughnut would say "ich bin ein Berliner".
As someone not literally from Berlin but making a metaphorical statement Kennedy's use of (2) was 100% correct.
But, yes, there is a technical ambiguity in Kennedy's statement opening up the possibility of a pun. From a purely lexico-grammatical standpoint the statement "ich bin ein Berliner" can mean either (2) or (3). But two things need to be said here: First, the word Berliner, although used in some parts of the German-speaking world to refer to a doughnut, is not commonly so used in Berlin itself. And secondly, even if it were which of the two technically possible meanings Kennedy intended is patently obvious from the context.
Edited on June 14, 2012 at 6:11amFeb '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Croix du Sud,
When I was at the Goethe Institute, it was a joke among the instructors (and you can hear people in the audience begin to laugh) about what Kennedy was saying.
Apr '11
Re: The Angry Hausfrau
Hang On: Croix du Sud,
When I was at the Goethe Institute, it was a joke among the instructors (and you can hear people in the audience begin to laugh) about what Kennedy was saying. · 1 hour ago
Sure, you can make a joke about it because the sentence does have two possible meanings. I myself have laughed at this joke. I'm not at all against making puns.
But that's not the same as saying Kennedy made a mistake with his German, i.e. that the sentence only has one possible meaning and that Kennedy actually said that he was a doughnut. It does not and he did not. That is the point I was trying to make.
As far as I'm concerned people are free to continue to make the "ich bin ein Berliner" pun and find it funny. But let's recognise it for what it is: a pun based on two possible meanings of a sentence and not a mistake in Kennedy's German.
Edited on June 14, 2012 at 11:35pm