The 12th Imam
Some of you may have seen this documentary, which according to Reza Khalili, a former Revolutionary Guard, has played a role in recent events in Iran. I can't evaluate that claim, though it's certainly interesting:
An Iranian cleric and presidential aide has been detained for backing a film about a key figure in the Shiite Muslim faith, state media reported.
Abbas Amirifar, who heads President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s cultural council, was summoned by a special clerical court and arrested, the state-run Fars news agency reported May 2 without giving details. Tehran Prosecutor-General Abbas Jafari- Dolatabadi declined to elaborate when asked today about accusations against Amirifar, Fars said.
Amirifar was arrested due to his cooperation in the making and distribution of a film entitled “The Coming Is Near,” the state-run Iranian Students News Agencyreported, citing Jafari- Dolatabadi. The film suggests that the Mahdi, the Messiah-figure of Shiite Islam, is to appear soon.
Here's the film.
I got quite caught up in it.
I don't know quite what to make of it. If all I knew about America was what I read the Washington Post, I'd conclude that Americans, too, are caught up in Apocalypsemania:
The man pushing the current forecast is Harold Camping, an 89-year-old Christian fundamentalist radio host and co-founder of the Family Radio network, which broadcasts on dozens of stations across the country. His group has sponsored the end-of-the-world caravan and plastered cities, including Washington, with billboards and signs.
Having visited America and seen it with my own eyes, I'm just not persuaded that predictions of imminent Rapture are driving the show. That said, if you're able to look at recent events in the Middle East without thinking "Apocalypse" these days, something's wrong with your imagination.
I do hope everyone calms down. I'm not eager to see any further signs of the return of the 12th Imam or the Rapture right now.
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Jul '10
Re: The 12th Imam
The last time these primitive mopes had a Mahdi, Lord Kitchener dug him up out of his grave and preserved his skull as a paperweight.
Jun '10
Re: The 12th Imam
What you didn't add is that after that incident the Brits and the world in general didn't have any trouble with the Sudanese until after independence.
Mar '11
Re: The 12th Imam
Yes, I saw the video when it was released a month or two ago.
We did discuss this briefly in a thread last week on Dinnerjacket's alleged Paganism, and I was surprised at another member equating the 12-ers with Protestants. Dinnerjacket is well-known to be a 12-er, so the current power struggle is more to do with that, rather than Paganism (conveniently, he can be killed as an apostate Pagan).
I'm also kinda surprised that the Ricochet elite don't know more about this - well, maybe it is considered a Conspiracy theory (Glenn Beck has covered it in detail, need I say more?).
Edited on May 9, 2011 at 12:13pmOct '10
Re: The 12th Imam
It would be quite distressing if an American president suggested that the apocalypse was nigh and that America would be the beneficiary.
By Thomas Erdbrink
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, May 8, 2008
TEHRAN, May 7 -- Several leading Iranian clerics criticized President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday for saying that the last imam of Shiite Islam, a messianic figure who Shiites believe was hidden by God 1,140 years ago, leads modern-day Iran.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050703587.html
Re: The 12th Imam
David Williamson:
I'm also kinda surprised that the Ricochet elite don't know more about this - well, maybe it is considered a Conspiracy theory (Glenn Beck has covered it in detail, need I say more?). · May 9 at 12:10pm
The development in this story is the claim that embarrassment over the release of this film is now driving the political infighting in Iran--I should have made that more clear. It's a claim, as I say, that I'm in no position to assess, but it's interesting.
I do find it unsettling to think that if I didn't know better, I'd read articles such as the one in the Post and assume that this kind of thinking was much more significant in America than it really is. It makes me wonder just how to evaluate similar claims about "what Iranians believe."
Mar '11
Re: The 12th Imam
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
The development in this story is the claim that embarrassment over the release of this film is now driving the political infighting in Iran--I should have made that more clear.
Hi Claire - well, I would suggest talking to Iranians or, better still, visiting Iran (don't forget your headscarf and long, loose-fitting dress). I have done both, but don't need to wear a dress... Even then, it is very hard to find out what is really going on - Conspiracy theories abound!
Obviously, it's much harder to find out exactly what is happening in Iran from the News, here. Sources I somewhat believe, based on what I know, are Hugh Hewett (and his various guests over the years), David Horowitz, Melanie Phillips, Robert Spencer and, strangely enough, Glenn Beck (he seems to have very good researchers, even though his presentations are a little whacky).
Beck even had one of his blackboards with Protestants on the left, 12-ers on the right, comparing and contrasting - big differences. I have no idea whether there is a Web link to it.
Anyway, the video you cite is the real deal on what the 12-ers believe.
May '10
Re: The 12th Imam
It doesn't matter what commoners believe. What matters is what the people in power believe. Millions of Americans believe we're nearing the End, but our politicians (certainly not our Presidents) would never express such views publicly.
As David points out, Glenn Beck was reporting well over a year ago that Ahmadenijad publicly expresses belief that the 12th Imam is near and that the 12th's coming can be hastened by war and chaos. If so, I can't imagine a better reason for assassination. What threat could be greater than someone who is willing to see his own country destroyed for some transcendent cause and has access to weapons of mass destruction?
If Beck was wrong or Khomeini rejects the 12th Imam idea, then that's wonderful news.
May '10
Re: The 12th Imam
You shall not know the day or the hour, said Jesus. Which doesn't stop a lot of people from making stupid predictions and looking for signs. Despite the fact that it says right there...
I wonder if Islam has any such caveat.
May '10
Re: The 12th Imam
Christian Millenarianism was huge in the US during my childhood, reaching its peak in the 1970s. When certain theories failed to pan out (having to do with the Common Market/European Union and the State of Israel) it fizzled.
Other than causing some people to stockpile canned food, I don't think it had much effect on world events. Christian Millenarianism's effect tends to be benign, because--unlike some Muslim and Jewish groups--Christians generally do not imagine they have the responsibility, or the power, to manipulate God's timetable for the End Times.
The closest parallel to Ahmadinejad in the west would be Ronald Reagan, but Reagan was his opposite, really: Reagan sometimes speculated that his actions might initiate the Apocalypse, but was filled with dread at the thought.
Those wishing to relive the glory days of Rapture Fever, or who want an introduction to the spirit of that age, should start with this Jack Chick tract. These things were everywhere when I was a kid. I remember them with a certain fondness, really.
Mar '11
Re: The 12th Imam
Aaron Miller:
If Beck was wrong or Khomeini rejects the 12th Imam idea, then that's wonderful news. · May 9 at 12:41pm
The present Supreme leader is Khamenei, not Khomeini (I know, tis confusing - kinda like Obama and Osama!).
Khamenei is also a 12-er, but I think with different views on the timing and method of arrival (Kennedy and Fredosphere's points). So you could say it is an inter-12-er dispute - Dinnerjacket is trying to speed things up, a bit. I'm pretty sure there is no good news in any of this.
All these people have roles, that are now playing out, according to the video that Claire cites - it's actually the clearest description of the 12-er belief that I have seen.
Update here.
Edited on May 9, 2011 at 2:51pmAug '10
Re: The 12th Imam
Having just read the articles by Ledeen and Khalili, the theft of $11billion from the country by the Ayatollah's son is pretty impressive. By Persian standards.
by cartoon standards.
Mar '11
Re: The 12th Imam
Oh, yes, forgot to mention Michael Ledeen - probably the best of all commentators on Iran.
Actually, he is slightly more optimistic. It may well be money behind the latest power struggle, rather than the 12th Imam or Paganism. Occam's razor.