Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
I hate to get into this again, but I'll do it in (belated) honor of Margaret Thatcher's birthday. An astute reader sent me a link to this post on Conservatives4Palin:
Often times, Governor Palin's rhetoric echos that of President Reagan, and quite often, whether intentionally or coincidentally, her rhetoric echos that of Margaret Thatcher.
Let's examine this claim.
Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?
Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.
Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.
Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.
Thatcher, 1981 press conference, in an unscripted, off-the-cuff, no-notes-at-hand response to a Canadian journalist’s rather vague question about rising British unemployment:
Well, one moment. There are a number of things. ... We believe we still have a bigger proportion of – let me take it this way. Between the ages of 16 and 64, broadly speaking, your working age group, we have a bigger proportion of the people in that age group in jobs than any other country on the continent save Denmark. We believe a bigger proportion, it is partly to do with the number of women who seek work, we believe that even with the unemployment figures as they are we still have a bigger proportion of that age group in jobs than anywhere else on the continent save Denmark. In jobs. The last sample figures were done in 1978 but there is quite a high proportion of married women in this country seeking work, so we have a bigger proportion. It is quite interesting. And with all due respect we now have unemployment of 9–10 percent but you know Belgium is higher than we are, Ireland, Italy about the same, France. We have our own figures updated, I am not sure about France, but if you look back a couple of months we and France were about level. But in fact Canada has difficult unemployment figures. You have very difficult unemployment figures, concentrated, like us, in some areas. Now look at the unemployment trends for the period 1951–1980 in Britain. Take the Tory Government, October 1951 to October 1964, over thirteen years. Average inflation 3.2 percent, average unemployment percent. Take October 1964 to June 1970, Labour Government. Average inflation rose to 4.7 percent, average unemployment rose to 1.9 percent; but still low, 447,000. Go to June 1970 to February 1974, our period, average inflation rose 9.5 percent, average unemployment rose to 3 percent, still comparatively low. Now it started to catch up on us then, this inflation/unemployment spiral. February 1974 to May 1979, average inflation rose to 15.5 percent, average unemployment rose to 4.7 percent, average 1,098,000. But towards the end of that period it was as you know suddenly about 1.3 million. I've taken the average. So we in fact were left with a basic underlying rate of about 1.3 million. Now it’s this cycle we have to try to break. Now all right, we're not yet breaking it – 16.7 percent is our average up to December 1980. Now, as you know, we're already down to 13 percent annual inflation, which is below the average of the last Labour Government. Unless we break this terrible cycle we're not going to crack the unemployment figures. And that's why we're going so hard on inflation.
I'm hard-pressed to find the rhetorical echoes. Given my enthusiasm for Thatcher, I'm not really vulnerable to the charge that I'm blinded by elitist, establishment snobbery.
- Comment (38)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Palin is to Thatcher as Mylie Cyrus is to Maria Callas.
Oct '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
It's true. Palin's great, but she can't hold a candle to Thatcher, and frankly I'm not sure there's anyone (man or woman) in the U.S. who can. DeMint and Ryan are close.
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
While I like Palin, I don't see her as similar to Thatcher except perhaps in terms of general scrappiness; she's much closer to Reagan in that what she seems to engender in her supporters (especially a live crowd) is a lot more based on feeling than on rhetoric, though Palin does seem to be working a bit harder on that too. But she's clearly trying to tap into the fact that Americans in general and especially American conservatives always felt more enthusiastic about Thatcher than even the British did. You know vastly more about Thatcher than almost anyone, but certainly more than the average American voter. Social media has infinitely increased that bizarre situation in politics where a perception is more important than a reality, and positioning herself next to Thatcher isn't a bad idea...if she intends to run for president. And she does. I guess what I'm getting at is...it doesn't matter that she's not really much like Thatcher because us having this conversation publicly...is exactly the result she desired.
Oct '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Consider too that in 1981, Margaret Thatcher had been Prime Minister for two years and had been a Member of Parliament for twenty years before her ascension to that position. By contrast, Sarah Palin gave that interview to Katie Couric just a week or two after being thrust into the national spotlight.
Sep '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Claire (I hope you don't mind the informality) can dig up the reference but Thatcher also mentioned the extensive preparation the parliamentary system forces upon you when explaining why she and Reagan had such different styles.
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
I am tempted to say it is all very simple, and that Thatcher was a stateswoman at a time when greatness (or honor!) did not need to be restored, whereas Palin is the sort of figure who emerges when you face, shall we say, an uphill climb. But that's not right at all. Thatcher came in as things looked to be bottoming out. Reagan too. And Churchill.... It's enough to make you wonder who's around the bend this time around.
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
No one can credibly argue that Palin is rhetorically comparable to Thatcher, but I hope we're not suggesting that her failure to be Thatcheresque is disqualifying. Few, if any measure up to Thatcher rhetorically. I don't understand how the comparisons/contrasts originated, frankly. Palin's a completely different type of person and candidate. She's hasn't British trappings of sophistication, but she doesn't hold herself out as having them. If American statecraft required that our candidates measure up to Thatcher we'd be bereft of candidates. In my view, Palin has many positive attributes, including her boldness, her energy, her persistence, her ability to excite and motivate grassroots conservatives, her authenticity, and her character, name a few. I think she's far sharper than many people assume. I also think people focus too much on experience as an indispensable qualification for office. Yet it seems the more experience one has in the public sector, the more removed he/she is from the real world. I think good judgment can go along way to compensate for gaps in experience. This is not an endorsement; I just have a higher opinion of her than some other people do.
Edited on Oct 13, 2010 at 9:17pmMay '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
I'd have to agree that I don't see much comparison. My husband recently came home from an offsite office strategy session with a packet of info about the Keirsey Temperament Sorter, which expands on the the personality traits of the Myers-Briggs. After checking out the website, I noticed the the KTS classifies Thatcher as a Rational Fieldmarshal (ENTJ). I'd be curious to know what Palin's personality profile is, but I'm willing to bet she's not a Fieldmarshal. Oh, and you know who else is one? Hillary Clinton.
Edited on Oct 13, 2010 at 9:26pmJul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
I think the main reason I'm sad you don't live here is that it'd be even more fun to watch you start stuff like this in person on a regular basis. (It should go without saying that the main reason I'm glad you *don't* live here is that I'd probably be black and blue on a regular basis...)
Sep '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Following up on David Limbaugh's point, as a Canadian, and someone who currently suffers with a parliamentary democracy, it takes a formidable grasp of detail to make sweeping changes in government here because there is no separate executive branch of government, You could argue that Thatcher's impressive command of detail actually weighed her down, locking her into battles that prevented her from attempting even greater reforms.
Let's face it -- for all the command of detail, and I hold Lady Thatcher in very high regard indeed -- only one leader asked Gorbachev to tear down that wall, and it takes an uncommon knowledge of history to attempt that.
(groaning from the crowd)
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Palin sought the comparison, starting I believe with Thatcher's birthday last year when Palin personally wished her a happy one on Facebook. There was a piece in the Telegraph shortly after she was tapped as McCain's running mate but after that I don't believe there were any substantial comparisons until Palin started making a point of name-checking Thatcher, and now she's sought a personal audience with her as well. I fully expect her to denounce the upcoming film, too. I agree with everything you said, David, but I think she was actually very smart to intentionally start placing her name and Thatcher's in the same sentence. No other American woman has had the temerity, regardless of the validity of the comparison. That alone means it will ring true for some people.
Oct '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Pseudodionysius
Claire (I hope you don't mind the informality) can dig up the reference but Thatcher also mentioned the extensive preparation the parliamentary system forces upon you when explaining why she and Reagan had such different styles. · Oct 13 at 9:13pm
Yes, the parliamentary system fosters debate and on-your-feet type of thinking in a way that our American system doesn't. I recall seeing the contrast a few years back when the detestable George Galloway testified before some Senate committee.
Sep '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
When you want someone to lead your parliamentary party, you pick Margaret Thatcher. When you want someone to lead your republican democratic party, you pick Ronald Reagan. When you want someone to lead your tea party, you pick Sarah Palin.
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
David Limbaugh, Guest Contributor: ...I think she's far sharper than many people assume. I also think people focus too much on experience as an indispensable qualification for office.
Edited on Oct 13 at 09:17 pm
David: I was initially a Palin supporter, but doubts soon grew: The perkiness rather than substance. The appalling Couric takedown. The sheer laziness of her rhetoric. Her obvious lack of historical and political knowledge.
And then came that absolute disaster of a resignation speech. I thought, "This is the critical, pivotal address of your entire public life and this is the way you handle it?"
Still, I thought, perhaps she'll take lots of time to educate herself, perhaps form a brain trust, read voraciously - get up to speed. But she hasn't, as far as I know.
Instead, she's sealed herself up in a bubble of crowd adulation - very much like Obama. Instead of growing and moving forward, she does the lazy, popular thing - roving the nation giving essentially the same banal speech day after day, living on Facebook and bestowing her imprimatur on candidates as though she had birthed them herself.
By the way, David, please stick around.
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
We didn't ask for a leader. She just jumped into the spotlight.
Sep '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
By the way, David, please stick around.
I second that.
Sep '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
We didn't ask for a leader. She just jumped into the spotlight.
There was a vacuum, and she filled it.
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Thank you both.
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Karen: I'd have to agree that I don't see much comparison. My husband recently came home from an offsite office strategy session with a packet of info about the Keirsey Temperament Sorter, which expands on the the personality traits of the Myers-Briggs. After checking out the website, I noticed the the KTS classifies Thatcher as a Rational Fieldmarshal (ENTJ). I'd be curious to know what Palin's personality profile is, but I'm willing to bet she's not a Fieldmarshal. Oh, and you know who else is one? Hillary Clinton. · Oct 13 at 9:16pm
Edited on Oct 13 at 09:26 pm
Tell you husband to read Cult of Personality. It's about the absolute fraudulence of personality tests - especially Myers-Briggs, which was devised by a high-school-educated Pennsylvania housewife.
From a decision-making standpoint, you'd be better off with a Ouija board or a Magic Eightball.
Jul '10
Re: Thatcher versus Palin, a Rhetorical Comparison
Pseudodionysius: We didn't ask for a leader. She just jumped into the spotlight.
There was a vacuum, and she filled it. · Oct 13 at 9:37pm
Well, I do not see any sense in which she exercises actual leadership of the Tea Party. She just shows up, does her schtick and gets paid.
That's not leadership, it's stand-up.