Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
They're out of their minds.
Army tanks on Saturday entered a village bordering Turkey, where 10,000 Syrians have sought refuge, an activist said, as Washington warned Damascus over its "continued brutality" against protesters.
With the deadly revolt now in its fourth month, Britain urged its nationals to leave Syria "now" by commercial means, warning that its embassy in Damascus was unlikely to be able to help them in the event of a further deterioration.
These are not "distant events in a perennially violent region that never gets better, so why bother thinking about it." This is tanks swarming against the border of a NATO ally. Get it? Britain is warning its nationals to get out of Syria, immediately. You've got Angeline Jolie and 10,000 refugees on one side of that border, Syrian troops, tanks and APCs on the other. Those troops are shooting. This is not normal.
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Nov '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
It's jaw-dropping to see how the world can take such appalling, concerted, intensive, terrorism in its stride. This is definitely just one of those things.
In contrast, when Israel sends a handful of troops rappelling down onto a ship violating a defensive blockade--Oy Vey!--the very moral fabric of reality itself is rent asunder.
As celebrity gestures go, Angelina Jolie's is hardly the worst. Yet the internet coverage I have found so far focuses only on the beneficience of Turkey authorities (which may be being rightly lauded) and her own sympathetic role.
It studiously avoids any reference to the enormity that is precipitating the crisis.
Jolie's own comments (which may be media edited) are weird. She says: "What I've been most impressed by is, impressed and disturbed by, is how much they understand about what's happening in their country, how they speak about family members being killed, themselves hearing gunfire, seeing their houses bombed, having to leave everything,"
She is "impressed and disturbed" by their level of "understanding"?
Hmm. Evidently the Syrians are exceeding her low intellectual expectations.
Is there perchance anything wicked in this situation she is appalled by?
Edited on Jun 18, 2011 at 6:30amNov '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Here's a sample link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/8583630/Syria-Angelina-Jolie-speaks-out-on-Turkey-refugee-visit.html
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Except that it's not. This is simply not "business as usual in the Middle East."
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
It hasn't been for a while. But this is a whole new level of destabilization.
Aug '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Aodhan: It's jaw-dropping to see how the world can take such appalling, concerted, intensive, terrorism in its stride. This is definitely just one of those things.
In contrast, when Israel sends a handful of troops rappelling down onto a ship violating a defensive blockade--Oy Vey!--the very moral fabric of reality itself is rent asunder.
As celebrity gestures go, Angelina Jolie's is hardly the worst. Yet the internet coverage I have found so far focuses only on the beneficience of Turkey authorities...
It studiously avoids any reference to the enormity that is precipitating the crisis.
Jolie's own comments (which may be media edited) are weird. She says: "What I've been most impressed by is, impressed and disturbed by, is how much they understand about what's happening in their country, how they speak about family members being killed, themselves hearing gunfire, seeing their houses bombed, having to leave everything,"
It's all about "feelings". To gain maximum credibility with the world Regime Media just say that you "feel devastated.... it's so tragic and senseless... they are a proud people... all they want is..." Sometimes people just have to fight it out.
Apr '11
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Not to point to my own posts since I have few of them, but The Telegraph recently reported that there was talk from Turkish officials that if the refugee issue gets worse and more people are likely to run to Turkey, the Turkish military might set up a "Safe Zone" with in Syria for those fleeing the Assad regime.
Your the resident expert on Turkey Claire. Would Turkey really do that or is it posturing? If they did I don't know how it won't be war between Syria and Turkey, and as you pointed out Turkey is a member of NATO.
Edited on Jun 18, 2011 at 7:32amRe: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Perhaps we'll get lucky and an overly enthusiastic Syrian officer will lead his men across the border. I can imagine that the Turkish army would take pleasure in intervening against Assad.
Apr '11
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Live updates on Syria’s uprising
http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=253828
May '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
So, Turkey is a NATO ally, right? An attack upon one is an attack upon all, right? If those tanks cross the border, NATO will do, what?
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
"NATO will do, what?" They may object; they may possibly object and indicate their deep concerns, and urge all parties to resolve the problem with non-violent means, or at least switch to NERF guns. You almost suspect that the administration doesn't want to get into the Syrian mess for fear of ruining its carefully manicured rapprochement with Iran.
Edited on Jun 18, 2011 at 10:37amRe: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
I have no idea. But I do know that however ambiguously Article 5 may be phrased, there would be no way to interpret that as anything but an attack on a member state.
I don't think it's likely to happen--they're playing chicken--but that regime is absolutely nuts. Big, awful wars often start through miscalculation. Anyone who is responsible for national security and not making plans like crazy right now is derelict of duty.
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
What Turkish army? The clueless conscript kids? The officers are in jail, remember?
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Valiuth: Not to point to my own posts since I have few of them, but The Telegraph recently reported that there was talk from Turkish officials that if the refugee issue gets worse and more people are likely to run to Turkey, the Turkish military might set up a "Safe Zone" with in Syria for those fleeing the Assad regime.
Your the resident expert on Turkey Claire. Would Turkey really do that or is it posturing? If they did I don't know how it won't be war between Syria and Turkey, and as you pointed out Turkey is a member of NATO. · Jun 18 at 7:26am
Edited on Jun 18 at 07:32 am
I think it's posturing. But I'm guessing; I don't know.
Jul '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Yeah, a NATO "ally" that refused to allow our troops to pass through their territory during the invasion of Iraq.
Let's face facts: an increasingly-Islamist Turkey is no more our friend than Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
We only have one friend in that part of the world: Israel.
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Kenneth
Yeah, a NATO "ally" that refused to allow our troops to pass through their territory during the invasion of Iraq.
Let's face facts: an increasingly-Islamist Turkey is no more our friend than Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
We only have one friend in that part of the world: Israel. · Jun 18 at 10:21am
Kenneth, unless I'm not remembering correctly, you've been one of the biggest critics on Ricochet of the Iraq invasion, haven't you? I seem to recall you arguing consistently that it was a catastrophic mistake. Is your argument that Turkey should have cooperated just on the grounds that this was a NATO obligation? (You could I think make that argument, but I'm not sure how strong it would be--Article 5 is ambiguous for a reason). Don't forget who strong-armed Turkey to stay out, either: Our friends France and Germany. They threatened Turkey with exclusion from the EU if they didn't.
Beyond that, it's not binary--you're not either "as good a friend as Israel" or "no friend at all." Turkey is definitely a better friend than, say, Syria.
Jun '11
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Ideally, this is the point where NATO would bring the hammer down and turn Syria's forces to dust. It can be done if the will is there; we have the technology and capabilities even though we stretched a bit thin thanks to the non-war war in Libya as well as the ongoing conflict in Afghanistan/Pakistan as well as support work in Iraq.
But the political will is weak, so I expect this administration and its cohort of idiots to do nothing useful.
Apr '11
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Syrian Refugees Describe Horrors of Assad Crackdown
on the Turkish-Syrian border
"Meanwhile Turks in Yayladagi, Altinözü and Antakya have mixed feelings about the refugees. "We hear the stories they are telling," says one merchant in central Yayladagi. "It's bad. We must help them." His wife has posted a sign in their grocery store that reads: "Welcome to Turkey." "But of course they can't stay here forever," he adds.
The refugees are "poor people without a future," another salesman in Altinözü says. That's why they came to Turkey, he adds.
Others say they don't believe what the refugees are saying about the situation in Syria, where state television has reported that there is no democratic movement, but Islamist extremists and violent rebels instead.
"These people and those who are poor are using this opportunity to come here," the owner of an Antakya telephone store says. "We don't know what to believe," adds his business partner. "One hears so much that turns out to be wrong in the end.
"http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,769029,00.html
Jul '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Kenneth
Yeah, a NATO "ally" that refused to allow our troops to pass through their territory during the invasion of Iraq.
Let's face facts: an increasingly-Islamist Turkey is no more our friend than Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
We only have one friend in that part of the world: Israel. · Jun 18 at 10:21am
Kenneth, unless I'm not remembering correctly, you've been one of the biggest critics on Ricochet of the Iraq invasion, haven't you?
No, actually, I was all for the Iraq invasion, because I thought it was George Bush's clever ruse to put American troops on the ground in preparation for an invasion of the real enemy - Iran.
But then it turned out that Bush actually believed he could establish a Jeffersonian democracy in a tribal hell-hole. Nothing clever about that.
Apr '11
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
Greater Syria or Greater Turkey?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ottoman_Syria_1918.png
Are Kurds and Turks waiting for an opportunity?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kurdish-inhabited_area_by_CIA_%281992%29.jpg
By the way, NATO has no hammer to bring down, not even a tack hammer. It is involved in two wars presently and losing both.
"The mightiest military alliance in history is only 11 weeks into an operation against a poorly armed regime in a sparsely populated country, yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the U.S., once more, to make up the difference," Gates said. The retiring secretary of Defense also repeated longstanding complaints about NATO contributions to the Afghanistan war.
"Despite more than 2 million troops in uniform -- not counting the U.S. military -- NATO has struggled, at times desperately, to sustain a deployment of 25,000 to 45,000 troops," Gates said. "Not just in boots on the ground, but in crucial support assets such as helicopters, transport aircraft, maintenance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and much more."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/06/gates-nato-is-risking-dismal-failure/1
Nov '10
Re: Syrian Tanks Approach Turkish Border
I don't disagree. My point is that it is often still being treated as just one of those things. I imagine subjective preceptions will yield to objective reality sooner or later.
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Except that it's not. This is simply not "business as usual in the Middle East." · Jun 18 at 6:42am