Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
The lead story on This Week was Islam. In a special townhall-style debate hosted by Christiane Amanpour, a motley crew of panelists discussed "Should Americans be afraid of Islam?" They also debated a related issue: the Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero, better known as the Ground Zero Mosque.
The debate went down like a middle school dance, with most boys to one side and most girls to the other.
Answering "yes" to the question of "should Americans fear Islam" were Rev. Franklin Graham, the evangelical son of Rev. Billy Graham; Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch; and Peter Gadiel, whose son was killed on 9/11.
Answering no were: Donna Marsh O'Connor, whose daughter was killed on 9/11; Daisy Khan, who is the wife of the GZM's Feisal Abdul Rauf; and Azar Nafisi, author of Reading Lolita in Tehran.
On the pro-Islam side, Daisy Khan and the smarmy Reza Aslan (who appeared via satellite) came off as churlish. One particularly unpalatable moment came when Khan implied that the Somali Muslim-turned-atheist author Ayaan Hirsi Ali--also a satellite guest--was a disingenuous coward because she needed a body guard to feel safe (and protect her, Khan failed to mention, against death threats from radical Muslims).
Among that same crowd, Azar Nafisi was the only one who spoke with true authority, experience, and charm--and unlike Aslan and Khan, she did not resort to personal attacks. Here's Nafisi:
I came here to America because I expected that that image which those people had imposed on us would not be imposed on us again. And look at my surprise. From both sides of the aisle, what you hear is that there is one Islam. If we think there is only one Islam, then we have to take sides. Either it's evil or it's good. But there are as many interpretations of Islam as there are Muslims....
Who is a Christian, Reverend Graham? Who is a Christian? The Inquisition claimed to be Christians. The gay Episcopalian bishop is a Christian. The Methodists are Christians. The Baptists are Christians. Sarah Palin and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are all Christians. Who is to say which one is more Christian than the other?
On the anti-Islam side, Gadiel was the most reasonable, while Spencer and Graham struck me as too extreme in their rhetoric. Gadiel spoke eloquently when he said:
I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core.
As I mentioned, Ayaan Hirsi Ali was also featured on the show, as was Islamist Anjem Choudary. Both of them should make Americans cringe in fear of Islam, but for very different reasons.
Hirsi Ali, for her part, has lived the horrors of radical Islam, as her books Infidel and Nomad explain, and she has devoted her life to defeating Islamism. For that, she receives constant death threats from jihadists around the world. Though she has spoken harshly of Islam, she still has a place for moderate Muslims in her worldview, as she said on This Week:
I think that it is very important that not only Americans, but westerners in general and Muslims, moderate Muslims, the ones who identify themselves as moderate Muslims, take the threat of the agents of political Islam very, very seriously. And every day, they win hearts and minds. They establish Muslim centers. Their movement was very little, but it is growing rapidly, and it's very, very dangerous."
Choudary, by contrast, represented the Islamist "fringe" that Gadiel discussed. On the show today, he accused Daisy Khan of not being a true Muslim: "I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing."
He went on:
You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
He also said, “The East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia and we believe that one day the flag of Islam will fly over the White House”
In general, the program was poorly directed and unruly. Amanpour was a clear advocate for the Muslim center and was on the attack against “one particular party” that was stirring up hatred toward Muslims in America (guess which party that is!). Read the transcript yourself here and report back on what you think!
**
Since my report on This Week was so long, I'll make the one about Fox News Sunday short!
The lead story on FNS was the Kentucky Senate showdown. Chris Wallace hosted the Republican candidate Rand Paul and the Democratic candidate Jack Conway. Conway is the state’s Attorney General and an Obama agenda supporter.
A newsworthy exchange occurred between Wallace and Paul when Paul said that if he is elected to the Senate, he would support Mitch McConnell for the Republican leader. Back in May, Paul said that he may not vote for McConnell. Here is the exchange on FNS today.
"Would you support Kentucky's Mitch McConnell for Republican leader if you become a senator?" asked Fox News' Chris Wallace.
"Yes, I think Mitch McConnell will be the leader again and hopefully the Majority Leader this time around," answered Paul.
"And you will support him? You will vote for him?" pressed Wallace.
"Yes. Yes," said Pail.
"Not Jim DeMint, not anyone else?" wondered Wallace.
"Right. What we're having is we will have a caucus meeting and decide but I will vote for whoever comes out of the caucus as the Republican leader," replied Paul.
Another interesting moment on the show came in the discussion with the panel. Chris Wallace asked whether Obama will move to the center after the midterms. The consensus on the panel was that Obama and his new chief of staff Pete Rouse will be less inclined to move to the middle in the same way that Clinton and Morris did after 1994. Does that mean Obama will be a one term president? What do you think?
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Comments:
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Emily Esfahani Smith, Ed.
There's a fantastic body of Muslim thought that upholds a tradition of balancing faith with reason that dates back to the very beginnings of Muslim theology. Basra, in modern-day Iraq, was actually a center for such thought in the 9th century AD, and the leading scholars there were loosely categorized as "Mutazili."
Emily, do you honestly find it comparable to the Judeo/Christian tradition of harmonizing faith and reason?
And what do you do with the fact that authoritative Muslim texts essentially deny Natural Law?
How is that comparable to Christianity?
I tend to agree with Mark Steyn. I'm afraid there already has been Muslim Reformation and jihad is it.
To me the idea that Islam can "recover" a tradition of harmonizing reason and faith is dangerously naive.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Sophomoric, liberal history, and I am no historian to be sure. Re: Rodney Stark, so a lapsed and religiously confused Lutheran (where do you go from there?) whose great insight about religion is...?...and that Roman Catholicism attracted too many lukewarm folks that made it not as "on fire" as...?...Lutheranism that followed a milleniium latter until Rodney Stark couldn't stand their on-firedness--or their lukewarmedness? What? Okay, finally, if Rodney Stark is notwithstanding, why is he standing here?
Jun '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
It does seem extreme to me to insist that the religion of Islam and the loose affiliation of people that practice it are in any way singleminded in either a political or theological sense, as Robert Spencer has –these “monolithic Muslims” have been fighting it out for centuries across three continents. A mess. It should be easy to call such an extraordinarily blunt premise as this “extreme”…whether pinpointed in the distant, pedantic, clusters of multidimensional space (boldly going where no hack has gone before) or on the sharp end of a dart in the red cork of a bull’s-eye. It is either intentionally dishonest or earnestly dimwitted. I figure it’s dishonest but I do not rule out the possibility that this thick-skulled rascal is as earnest as he appears.
I can’t speak for Emily, but that is what I believe is incorrect in this career zealot’s astigmatic view. And I don’t really believe he is thinking in terms of multidimensional clusters of space either…far from it.
As for Mr Graham, my heart goes out to him. And he has not made his grief, nor his belief, into an on-going concern.
Edited on October 4, 2010 at 4:50amMay '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
katievs, I don't recall moral relativism being championed as an Enlightenment value (clearly it could not have been since Enlightenment thinkers made lucid preferences of certain modes of conduct over others - they did not forgo value judgments). If you had Mr. Rousseau in mind, I know that many scholars of philosophy deny the idea that Rousseau was a contributing member of the Enlightenment movement. It's my conviction that neither Christianity nor Islam endorses reason, either in its inductive or deductive forms (the tradition of rationalist epistemology in Catholicism is a hand-me-down from Greek philosophy and is not original to Christianity). From what I've read, Christian and Islamic scripture emphasize faith, belief without regard for evidence, which I believe is at odds with reason, the method of discovering new truths in the form of propositions from prior propositions. The difference between Christianity and Islam today is precisely that Christians have become inextricably familiar with the secular values and virtues of the Enlightenment, things which have anesthetized the more benighted parts of scripture (e.g. stoning gays).
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David, I've had similar debates in the past and have encountered quite a few Christians who appeal to Dr. Stark's revisionist work as evidence against the standard "liberal" account. katiev, Again, I deny that Christianity reconciles faith with reason. Christian scripture mentions nothing of the method of logic, advances faith, and even criticizes empirical confirmation (the doubting Thomas parable). The Catholic rationalists were completely in debt to the work if the Aristotelians and the Stoics, among other Greek epistemologists. Not too long ago in the history of mankind its was the Christians extremists who kept people on their guard.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
katievs
Emily Esfahani Smith, Ed.
There's a fantastic body of Muslim thought that upholds a tradition of balancing faith with reason that dates back to the very beginnings of Muslim theology. Basra, in modern-day Iraq, was actually a center for such thought in the 9th century AD, and the leading scholars there were loosely categorized as "Mutazili."
Emily, do you honestly find it comparable to the Judeo/Christian tradition of harmonizing faith and reason?
Oct 3 at 6:57pm
Given that Averroes reintroduced the secular rationalism of the ancient Greeks to the West--and has been called the founder of Western secularism--I'm going to say...yes. Check out Stanford's Richard Taylor's take on Averroes.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Tim: It is either intentionally dishonest or earnestly dimwitted. I figure it’s dishonest but I do not rule out the possibility that this thick-skulled rascal is as earnest as he appears.
I can’t speak for Emily... · Oct 3 at 7:15pm
Edited on Oct 03 at 07:50 pm
It's easier to dismiss a truth that undercuts one's ideological framework than to modify that framework to incorporate an inconvenient fact. I'm guessing that Spencer's approach is the former and not the latter.
Jul '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David Schmitt:
But Ms. Esfahani Smith, you are the reporter. Please, before you dispense with them because of their supposed "extreme rhetoric," do tell me at least a bit of what Spencer and Graham said...Perhaps Mr. Spencer and Graham, neither historians I believe, at least go in depth elsewhere? · Oct 3 at 6:46pm
Well, David, Rev. Graham was quoted as saying that Islam is "evil" and "wicked." I would characterize that as "extreme rhetoric," wouldn't you? He goes so in depth as to say, "Especially with Sharia law and what it does for women -- toward women, toward non-believers, the violence that is given in -- under Sharia law."
Does Graham have any idea what he is talking about? Has he ever read works of Muslim jurisprudence? "Sharia" is thrown around as this kind of bogeyman. For one thing, there are so many divisions of Islamic legal thinking, with so many varieties of interpretation, that using "sharia" as a catch-all term is best left for Muslim fundamentalists like Mullah Omar.
Unfortunately, because he jacks up ratings, Graham gets to string together dark mutterings about "sharia" and women on national television, and people actually listen to him.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
That's a good point--enlightenment thinkers, with their emphasis on rational thought, were challenging, not endearing themselves to, Christianity. Christianity, to its credit (and I think we may disagree here?) undoubtedly absorbed classical and enlightenment thinking into its religious framework, but doing so was an epic struggle, as Charlie points out above, and it took centuries to work itself out.
Islam is going through its own struggle with extremism. That struggle began in the 20th century. If you walk down the streets of Cairo today, all the women are veiled. Not so 40 years ago. Clearly history, not just theology, has played a role in the transformation of Islam. It's up to moderate Muslims, and Muslim scholars, to now play their role.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Tom Lindholtz: I spoke today with an ex-pat New Zealander who lives in Bangalore, India. He was talking about the Hindu nationalists. He said, they don't persecute the Muslims (The largest minority religion) because they know the Muslims will respond violently with muscle. But they do persecute Christians (the second largest minority religion) because they know Christians won't respond with violence.
IOW, a non-American assessing Muslims in a non-American setting viewed from a Hindu cultural perspective suggests that the answer to the question is 'Yes'.
Just thought a broader perspective might shed some useful light. · Oct 3 at 5:46pm
IOW?
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Again, how is citing this Stark fellow helping us understand the points raised in Ms. Esfahani's post? Debates similar to what exactly?
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Could it be that you simply disagree with Mr. Spencer and Rev. Graham? You offered one point for consideration: the intra-Islamic strife that has occurred. That was appreciated. I did not know much about either Mr. Spencer or Rev. Graham (other than the latter being the son of a well-known preacher) or their positions. I cannot say that I know much more now. I do get the sense that Tim does not like Mr. Spencer.
Jun '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
In case anybody forgot the history (at full size you can read the map notations):
http://euroheritage.net/islamicconquest.jpg
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Charlie Dameron
...Rev. Graham was quoted as saying that Islam is "evil" and "wicked." I would characterize that as "extreme rhetoric," wouldn't you?
Why am I called upon to render a judgment here in this particular case based on such little evidence? Explain why I should not be concerned about jihad and sharia law. More generally, are terms like "evil" and "wicked" always to be avoided? Are these words somehow inherently "extreme," or is it that they can refer to things that are indeed evil and wicked and thus deserve to be identified as such? Again, what exactly is "extreme?" I am looking in my dictionary and cannot find a negative connotation.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Please, tell me more about this "stoning of gays," Mr. Labeit.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David, I appeal to Leviticus 20:13. It doesn't specify how gays shall be slain, but it does command it.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David, I appeal to Leviticus 20:13. It doesn't specify how gays shall be slain, but it does command it.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Emily Esfahani Smith, Ed.
David Schmitt
If you view medieval history as a glowing story about the subjugation of Christianity...· Oct 3 at 3:45pm
Edited on Oct 03 at 03:50 pm
That's what the enlightenment was! · Oct 3 at 5:38pm
Are you saying that the enlightenment was a monovalent good?
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Michael, I hardly know what to say. You seem to understand nothing of the Christianity you so summarily dismiss. Church fathers embraced Greek Philosophy in the early centuries of the Church. See Origen. See Augustine.
Catholic priests and monks were among the founders of the empirical method in science. See Albert the Great. See Copernicus. See Galileo. The Catholic Church has been a great benefactor and promoter of science throughout history. It practically founded the concept of universities. The monasteries of Europe were great repositories of learning throughout the Middle Ages: scientific and philosophical as well as theological. Irish monks preserved western civilization during the Dark Ages by painstakingly copying the classics...
Opening lines of John Paul II's great encyclical Faith and Reason:
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Oops. Don't know what happened to that opening line. Here it is:
Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth...
Here are the opening lines of the encyclical on Catholic universities, ex corde ecclessiae:
... a Catholic University is located in that course of tradition which may be traced back to the very origin of the University as an institution. It has always been recognized as an incomparable centre of creativity and dissemination of knowledge for the good of humanity. By vocation, the Universitas magistrorum et scholarium is dedicated to research, to teaching and to the education of students who freely associate with their teachers in a common love of knowledge(1). With every other University it shares that gaudium de veritate, so precious to Saint Augustine, which is that joy of searching for, discovering and communicating truth(2) in every field of knowledge. A Catholic University's privileged task is "to unite existentially by intellectual effort two orders of reality that too frequently tend to be placed in opposition as though they were antithetical: the search for truth, and the certainty of already knowing the fount of truth"(3)
Edited on October 4, 2010 at 4:53pm