Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
The lead story on This Week was Islam. In a special townhall-style debate hosted by Christiane Amanpour, a motley crew of panelists discussed "Should Americans be afraid of Islam?" They also debated a related issue: the Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero, better known as the Ground Zero Mosque.
The debate went down like a middle school dance, with most boys to one side and most girls to the other.
Answering "yes" to the question of "should Americans fear Islam" were Rev. Franklin Graham, the evangelical son of Rev. Billy Graham; Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch; and Peter Gadiel, whose son was killed on 9/11.
Answering no were: Donna Marsh O'Connor, whose daughter was killed on 9/11; Daisy Khan, who is the wife of the GZM's Feisal Abdul Rauf; and Azar Nafisi, author of Reading Lolita in Tehran.
On the pro-Islam side, Daisy Khan and the smarmy Reza Aslan (who appeared via satellite) came off as churlish. One particularly unpalatable moment came when Khan implied that the Somali Muslim-turned-atheist author Ayaan Hirsi Ali--also a satellite guest--was a disingenuous coward because she needed a body guard to feel safe (and protect her, Khan failed to mention, against death threats from radical Muslims).
Among that same crowd, Azar Nafisi was the only one who spoke with true authority, experience, and charm--and unlike Aslan and Khan, she did not resort to personal attacks. Here's Nafisi:
I came here to America because I expected that that image which those people had imposed on us would not be imposed on us again. And look at my surprise. From both sides of the aisle, what you hear is that there is one Islam. If we think there is only one Islam, then we have to take sides. Either it's evil or it's good. But there are as many interpretations of Islam as there are Muslims....
Who is a Christian, Reverend Graham? Who is a Christian? The Inquisition claimed to be Christians. The gay Episcopalian bishop is a Christian. The Methodists are Christians. The Baptists are Christians. Sarah Palin and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are all Christians. Who is to say which one is more Christian than the other?
On the anti-Islam side, Gadiel was the most reasonable, while Spencer and Graham struck me as too extreme in their rhetoric. Gadiel spoke eloquently when he said:
I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core.
As I mentioned, Ayaan Hirsi Ali was also featured on the show, as was Islamist Anjem Choudary. Both of them should make Americans cringe in fear of Islam, but for very different reasons.
Hirsi Ali, for her part, has lived the horrors of radical Islam, as her books Infidel and Nomad explain, and she has devoted her life to defeating Islamism. For that, she receives constant death threats from jihadists around the world. Though she has spoken harshly of Islam, she still has a place for moderate Muslims in her worldview, as she said on This Week:
I think that it is very important that not only Americans, but westerners in general and Muslims, moderate Muslims, the ones who identify themselves as moderate Muslims, take the threat of the agents of political Islam very, very seriously. And every day, they win hearts and minds. They establish Muslim centers. Their movement was very little, but it is growing rapidly, and it's very, very dangerous."
Choudary, by contrast, represented the Islamist "fringe" that Gadiel discussed. On the show today, he accused Daisy Khan of not being a true Muslim: "I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing."
He went on:
You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
He also said, “The East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia and we believe that one day the flag of Islam will fly over the White House”
In general, the program was poorly directed and unruly. Amanpour was a clear advocate for the Muslim center and was on the attack against “one particular party” that was stirring up hatred toward Muslims in America (guess which party that is!). Read the transcript yourself here and report back on what you think!
**
Since my report on This Week was so long, I'll make the one about Fox News Sunday short!
The lead story on FNS was the Kentucky Senate showdown. Chris Wallace hosted the Republican candidate Rand Paul and the Democratic candidate Jack Conway. Conway is the state’s Attorney General and an Obama agenda supporter.
A newsworthy exchange occurred between Wallace and Paul when Paul said that if he is elected to the Senate, he would support Mitch McConnell for the Republican leader. Back in May, Paul said that he may not vote for McConnell. Here is the exchange on FNS today.
"Would you support Kentucky's Mitch McConnell for Republican leader if you become a senator?" asked Fox News' Chris Wallace.
"Yes, I think Mitch McConnell will be the leader again and hopefully the Majority Leader this time around," answered Paul.
"And you will support him? You will vote for him?" pressed Wallace.
"Yes. Yes," said Pail.
"Not Jim DeMint, not anyone else?" wondered Wallace.
"Right. What we're having is we will have a caucus meeting and decide but I will vote for whoever comes out of the caucus as the Republican leader," replied Paul.
Another interesting moment on the show came in the discussion with the panel. Chris Wallace asked whether Obama will move to the center after the midterms. The consensus on the panel was that Obama and his new chief of staff Pete Rouse will be less inclined to move to the middle in the same way that Clinton and Morris did after 1994. Does that mean Obama will be a one term president? What do you think?
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Comments :
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
We should fear Islam taken literally, particularly the bits of Islamic scripture that either condone or instruct some to initiate the use of force against others.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Can major world religions be usefully diagnosed as passive-aggressive?
Edited on Oct 3, 2010 at 1:57pmMay '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Radical Islam can be subdued, just as medieval Christianity. All it takes is a culture of enlightenment values and virtues. Reason has got to be the ultimate arbiter of disputes and method for gaining knowledge. Islam can be domesticated.
Jun '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Which side of the debate was this guy on again....?
(from Newsbusters.org) 'This Week' Wages 'Holy War' Month Before Midterms: 'We Believe that One Day the Flag of Islam will Fly Over the White House'
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/10/03/week-wages-holy-war-month-midterms-we-believe-one-day-flag-islam-will-fly
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
This is exactly Hirsi Ali's point. She thinks that Islam needs an enlightenment. The question is: how?
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
This post has been removed by the editor (the post above double-posted)
Edited on Oct 3, 2010 at 2:19pmMay '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
And I liked the old Sunday morning model: Get some bigshot on your show and give him a chance to "make news."
To hell with the national therapy, especially when administered by Christiane Amanpour.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Emily, the how is the difficult part. Undoubtedly, it must begin with education, particularly in academia where the stultifying claims of cultural relativism turn young students into politically correct drones.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
There is nothing more frustrating to me than when someone is dismissed outright, "because they are too extreme." This has long been a game of the marxists. It allows those in that grouping—with the acquiescence of too many naïve American conservatives--to pick what is "center," and to control debate and the behavior of their opponents, viz., us. I reject this completely false model of political positions falling along a single axis from one pole to another. Political views fall in a multidimensional space. There is nothing inherently incorrect about a position because it falls, even far, outside of a cluster. That would be true even if positions were provisionally projected onto a line for the purpose of simplifying a discussion at hand. This was a big problem with your reporting on the Beck rally a few weeks ago. You have not seemed to have learned your lesson. Bottom line, please tell me what you believe is incorrect a person's view without ever resorting to this unconvincing technique again.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
If you view medieval history as a glowing story about the subjugation of Christianity, then I am not sure even where to begin the discussion with you.
Edited on Oct 3, 2010 at 3:50pmMay '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
One of the themes of the Dark and Middle Ages was the repression of others by religious authorities adhering to literal interpretations of Christian scripture, Rodney Stark's claims notwithstanding.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
I dislike the original question. It should have been "Is Islam inherently dangerous?" or "Is lslam a threat to America?" We don't need to fear it, but we do need to fight it: with reason and wit and courage.
I am a great admirer of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But I think she is wrong about our hope lying in the Enlightment. Medieval Christianity is only superficially similar to Islam. In key ways it is radically different. For instance, Christianity has always had a lively natural law tradition, while Islam rejects it. Right is what Allah wills.
Every good and true accomplishment of the Enlightment is not only compatible with Christianity; it is rooted in Christianity. Other of its aspects, e.g. the rejection of tradition and the exultation of moral relativism, render us more, not less vulnerable.
Witness the difficulty Europe is having defending itself.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David Schmitt
Political views fall in a multidimensional space. Oct 3 at 3:43pm
Does your reasoning apply to religious views as well? If so, wonderful! That means that you don't think Islam is as monolithic as Spencer and Graham do. That's a great place to start a conversation about Islam.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David Schmitt
If you view medieval history as a glowing story about the subjugation of Christianity...· Oct 3 at 3:45pm
Edited on Oct 03 at 03:50 pm
That's what the enlightenment was!
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Hi Katievs - The reason why Hirsi Ali thinks that the enlightenment is the answer to Islam's woes is because in enlightenment thinking, reason trumps faith. With faith, "right is what allah wills," as you say. With reason, "right" is what is true--that is, consistent with fact, history, experience, and logic. There are so many contradictions within Islam over questions like should women wear the veil, is jihad an armed struggle or internal one, and so on, that there is a place for rational thought--rather than blind faith--to step in and resolve them. Islam has a rich history of philosophers doing just that. What Muslims need to do is revive that tradition!
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
I spoke today with an ex-pat New Zealander who lives in Bangalore, India. He was talking about the Hindu nationalists. He said, they don't persecute the Muslims (The largest minority religion) because they know the Muslims will respond violently with muscle. But they do persecute Christians (the second largest minority religion) because they know Christians won't respond with violence.
IOW, a non-American assessing Muslims in a non-American setting viewed from a Hindu cultural perspective suggests that the answer to the question is 'Yes'.
Just thought a broader perspective might shed some useful light.
Jul '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
David Schmitt
If you view medieval history as a glowing story about the subjugation of Christianity, then I am not sure even where to begin the discussion with you. · Oct 3 at 3:45pm
Edited on Oct 03 at 03:50 pm
Michael's point is spot-on. Enlightenment thinking is what dragged us out of the narrow-minded religious bickering that produced such moments as the 30 Years' War, the Crusades, the English Civil War, and many of Europe's other greatest hits. Granted, lingering skirmishes like the Troubles in Ireland continue to plague Western societies even today, but the triumph of secularism stanched much of the carnage characteristic of pre-modern life.
*Parts* of the Muslim world are on their own quest to move into modernity. Many parts are already there (see Turkey, Indonesia, India, Morocco et al). But we ought to strive to proudly uphold the Enlightenment tradition, not wax poetic about the superiority of our own barbaric and medieval past.
May '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Hi Emily.
Yes. But I think where Ayaan is wrong is that she takes it for granted that all religions subordinate faith to reason. This is simply not true of Christianity.
there is a place for rational thought--rather than blind faith--to step in and resolve them. Islam has a rich history of philosophers doing just that. What Muslims need to do is revive that tradition! · Oct 3 at 5:45pm
Is there such a rich history? Where? I see no comparison between Christianity and Islam on this point.
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
katievs
there is a place for rational thought--rather than blind faith--to step in and resolve them. Islam has a rich history of philosophers doing just that. What Muslims need to do is revive that tradition! · Oct 3 at 5:45pm
Is there such a rich history? Where? I see no comparison between Christianity and Islam on this point. · Oct 3 at 6:06pm
There's a fantastic body of Muslim thought that upholds a tradition of balancing faith with reason that dates back to the very beginnings of Muslim theology. Basra, in modern-day Iraq, was actually a center for such thought in the 9th century AD, and the leading scholars there were loosely categorized as "Mutazili."
The best examplar of this tradition--at least the one most famous in the West--was Averroes (Ibn Rushd), who, by the way, helped reintroduce the West to Athenian rationalism.
But there are also more contemporary examples: Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, a great Indian Muslim scholar, and also Muhammad Asad, whose life's labor was a wonderful rationalist English translation of the Koran.
Aug '10
Re: Sunday News Shows: Should Americans Fear Islam?
Emily Esfahani Smith, Ed.
David Schmitt
Political views fall in a multidimensional space. Oct 3 at 3:43pm
Does your reasoning apply to religious views as well? If so, wonderful! That means that you don't think Islam is as monolithic as Spencer and Graham do. That's a great place to start a conversation about Islam. · Oct 3 at 5:37pm
But Ms. Esfahani Smith, you are the reporter. Please, before you dispense with them because of their supposed "extreme rhetoric," do tell me at least a bit of what Spencer and Graham said, then perhaps I could begin to form some conclusions and look into it deeper myself. So now, I know that Spencer and Graham were to have made comments about Islam being monolithic. Good. That's a start. I certainly am not ready to consider that view as "extreme." Talking or writing in a limited amount of time always brings up this problem of making a point versus having a remaining audience that is not sleeping. Perhaps Mr. Spencer and Graham, neither historians I believe, at least go in depth elsewhere?