Style-Sheet Questions
Hey, I just noticed that everyone else has been using title case to introduce their posts, whereas I've been using sentence case. Back in the startup days of the original Asia Times, we had a huge newsroom debate about this--we were violently divided between those who thought sentence case was classier and those who thought title case had more mass appeal. One sub-editor actually brought reams of statistical data into the office to prove that newspapers that used title case sold better. I was actually on the title case side of the brawl--if I remember rightly, the white folks were all on that side and the Asians on the other--but in the end the sentence case faction prevailed, striking another firm blow against the White Man's neo-colonial journalism. You've got to pick your battles and that one really didn't seem worth going to the mattresses, so I ended up in the habit of using sentence case.
Anyway, I think this decision has already been made by default here--Title Case It Is!--but I wonder if readers are noticing any other style-sheet issues that we ought to be thinking about.
- Comment (24)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (3)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments :
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
I'd go with whatever your web usability consultant/web monkey/coder girl or guy says, not with a print analogs. If you don't have anyone involved, there's always Jakob Nielsen. Lileks would have some good ideas, too.
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
I'm trying to decide if this a joke or perhaps you were thinking of going to the mat in all your martial arts splendor.... [Oh no...Google tells me you didn't make this phrase up!]
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Of course not, Outstripp! It comes from the greatest junk-fiction book ever written. A Gold Star to the first Ricochet reader to identify it without using Google. You're on the honor code.
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Don't have a guess on the junk-fiction book. Bummer. However, I'm curious about the Ricochet preference on 's after names/words ending in "s." At my Catholic school, I was taught that the only "s" name that does NOT get a 's is Jesus. For example, we would say, "James's post about Jesus' sense of humor was thought-provoking. I wonder if we could find anything fun in Moses's quotes." Any strong feelings?
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
I'm actually totally neutral on it. Save this post, you won't hear that from me often.
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Well, I can't do it without a search engine. But I did think that I recognized a Freudian slip.
It is worthy of Falling Up the Stairs (that is not the book she refers to, though.
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Please, no uniformity. I want no middle ground between Carter and Epstein, Berlinski and Klavan.
After some wobbling, I chose sentence case for my blog to reflect its casual tone. Title case is what one might expect from reporters wishing they were novelists. Let it die with the idea that journalists should have uniform standards.
I'll call a few other questionable rules to the floor.
First, the primary purpose of a period is to mark the end of a statement. Thus, it should not be pushed inside a closing quotation mark for what can only be aesthetic reasons. Ex: I hate the word "gender." If the quote ends in a period, then it's acceptable.
Second, use of "an" instead of "a" should take into account the following word's pronunciation, rather than its spelling. Ex: An honorary degree makes me laugh.
Lastly, don't use Latin or French when English works just as well. The use of "id est" or "i.e." instead of simply "that is" (which is exactly what the Latin phrase means) is pointless.
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
One of the raging debates we've had was on serif vs. sans serif fonts. The serifs won, obviously enough, despite more examples of sans serif in the online wild (WSJ, Daily Caller, Facebook, Politico, etc.).
Serifs seem to present a problem, though, when the font sizes get small. Given that some of our planned enhancements (e.g., a conversation dashboard) may require a regular use of smaller fonts, and that the comparative legibility of serif fonts suffers at smaller sizes, we might have to switch this.
Would any of our readers be terribly bothered by this?
Feb '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Aaron Miller: ...
First, ...
Second, ...
Lastly, ...
Since we're debating the use of language, it should be First, Second, Last (not "Lastly"). Better yet, First, Second, Third.
Here's why:
I disagree with your first point. However, I agree with your second and *lastly points.
Which, although used as an example, is also true. :)
Edited on Jul 16, 2010 at 10:40amRe: Style-Sheet Questions
Aaron Miller: First, the primary purpose of a period is to mark the end of a statement. Thus, it should not be pushed inside a closing quotation mark for what can only be aesthetic reasons. Ex: I hate the word "gender." If the quote ends in a period, then it's acceptable.
Second, use of "an" instead of "a" should take into account the following word's pronunciation, rather than its spelling. Ex: An honorary degree makes me laugh.
Lastly, don't use Latin or French when English works just as well. The use of "id est" or "i.e." instead of simply "that is" (which is exactly what the Latin phrase means) is pointless. · Jul 16 at 7:59am
1. No, no, no! That's British. We're American. Although I guess right-thinking Britons are more than welcome. But we did not have a Revolution just to wind up punctuating the way they do in the Old World.
2. Completely agreed.
3) No, disagree. Sometimes a Latin or French phrase has a different feeling and distinct literary associations. Quod erat demonstrandum.
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
... distinct literary associations which fly right over the heads of most readers. When someone uses Latin as much as First Things contributors or French as often as Mark Steyn, that person likely spends far too much time talking to fellow writers and philosophers. A good rhetorician adapts his or her vocabulary, style and cadence to particular audiences. The vast majority of Americans are not familiar with such allusions. I'm not advocating low standards, however.
By the way, a literature professor of mine once had a bumper sticker that read, "Support your local rhetorician!". [Yes, that period is intentional.] He was pulled over by a policeman who thought it was some sort of insult.
Busy System Admin
Aaron Miller: ...
First, ...
Second, ...
Lastly, ...
Since we're debating the use of language, it should be First, Second, Last (not "Lastly"). Better yet, First, Second, Third.
Here's why:
I disagree with your first point. However, I agree with your second and *lastly points.
Which, although used as an example, is also true. :) · Jul 16 at 10:05am
Touché. Or should I say, "You got me"?
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Logo- sans serif is more my style. And you do need to be reasonably merciful, despite the eternal quest for That Youthful Next-Gen Demo, to us presbyopic (over 40, or, gulp, 50) fossils.
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
I'm going to stay out of this for the most part. Too many years of design school and design work combined with a tendency to lecture would probably leave me looking like a jerk.
I'll say this, though: I've never met a designer who was passionate about their design beliefs who couldn't justify their beliefs with studies and surveys. Unfortunately, that just meant dueling studies because designers don't often agree with each other.
So find an aesthetic, understand it, and build it beautifully.
Title case headlines, sans-serif at least for body copy, the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks, a little extra linespacing ("leading" if you're old-school and "line-height" if you're speaking the language of Cascading Style Sheets) might improve legibility, Jesus' not Jesus's, a little careful Latin can add a nice flavor to the writing, and I hate myself a little for not being able to keep my opinions to myself.
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Oh, I always hear this argument, and I always vigorously disagree. We're in the age of Google. It takes no time at all to look something up. Whenever I run into a word I don't know, I look it up, and I'm always happy to learn a new word. English has the largest lexicon of any living language--isn't that an extraordinary thing? Aren't we lucky to have inherited this rich and beautiful language with its magnificent literary heritage? We can only keep the language this rich by using it--all of it! And foreign phrases--we must steal them, like the imperialists we are. They're ours for the plunder, ours for the taking! If we use them enough, you know, we create facts on the ground. They become English. While the French are banning our beautiful and useful English phrases, we're cheerfully stealing theirs. Whose language, do you think, will end up better? Ça va sans dire.
Edited on Jul 16, 2010 at 2:36pmMay '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Claire Berlinski
we must steal them, like the imperialists we are. They're ours for the plunder, ours for the taking! If we use them enough, you know, we create facts on the ground. They become English. While the French are banning our beautiful and useful English phrases, we're cheerfully stealing theirs. Whose language, do you think, will end up better? Ça va sans dire. · Jul 16 at 2:34pm
Why not- I'm fine with multi-linguals showing off!
Aaron, get a little bit of kultur....
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Yes, Claire, Google has changed the world. That "Google" is often used as a verb demonstrates both how popular the search engine has become and how wondrously adaptive the English language is. I don't mind the occasional allusion here and there.
I suppose this, too, is an aesthetic disagreement. I have equal admiration for the rhetoric of Robert Frost and of Edgar Allan Poe, of Walt Disney and of Winston Churchill. I admire a humble turn of phrase or colloquial expression as much as an elaborate monologue or public address. I agree that there are many wonderful nuances to be found in the variety of words and phrases within the English language (and our imperialist claims). But eloquence is not a function of knowledge.
In the words of that dastardly grouch, Mel Gibson, "Let's just say I'm agreeing with you in a completely unusual way."
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
The Logo sits squarely in your corner, Mr. Jones, and is sufficiently old-school to use terms like "kerning" and "leading." If you get The Logo really going, it might start talking about x-heights (how x-heighting!) -- although it really doesn't know much about font elements beyond that.
In re sans serifs, one of Ricochet's Editors in Chief has mercilessly bludgeoned The Logo with the writings of David Ogilvy. Mr. Ogilvy claimed considerable data to back up his strong preference for serifs. While The Logo doesn't doubt this, these heuristics applied to a print medium; serifs on screens tend to pixelate out, so The Logo (despite its own bodacious, Bodoni-esque adornments) prefers something cleaner.
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Oh, and Logo my Love, "critique" is a noun, not a verb. Can we change that in the "About" section? We mean "criticize."
May '10
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
I think this proves that you should trust The Logo's judgement on all things design related. If The Logo were somewhere in Denver, I would invite The Logo for drinks.
Now I'm quitting this comment thread before someone can accuse me, rightfully, of pedantry.
Re: Style-Sheet Questions
Ursula, St. Thomas Aquinas High School taught me the same. But I've never been able to enforce any sort of uniformity at the office, and I doubt that I'll have any more success here.