Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
I read Naomi Shaefer Riley's review of Lost in Transition: The Dark Side of Emerging Adulthood with interest, though I don't think I'd go so far as to buy the book, because it's boring and depressing to read at length about boring and depressing people, and even more depressing to read about boring young people:
Oh, and about that widespread heralding after the 2008 election of a new generation of politically active youth—Smith and his colleagues call this idea “sheer fiction.” They find no more than one of every twenty-five respondents to be engaged in politics in any meaningful way. The conversations with those other twenty-four that Smith et al. recount are even more disheartening than the statistics:
I: How do you feel about politics in general? Are you a very political person?
R: Naw.
I: Do you pay attention to politics and world and national events?
R: No.
I: No? What would you say your own political position is? . . .
R: I don’t have one.
I: You don’t have one? So you wouldn’t consider yourself to be a Republican or Democrat, conservative, liberal?
R: Naw.
I: Are there any social, political issues you especially care about?
R: No.
This sort of conversation—typical of what the interviewers call the “apathetic” segment of the population—happened in more than a quarter of the interviews. Another 13 percent are dubbed “uninformed.” Their answers were very similar to those of the apathetic, except they barely understood the questions. What’s worse, few young adults expressed the slightest embarrassment that they were so ill informed and unconcerned. In other words, they had no sense that these are things that they should know or care about.
The part of me that doesn't take a perverse pleasure in hating the young realizes, however, that the question we need to answer before we can declare these responses meaningful is whether the answers would have been substantially different a generation ago. If it's not a longitudinal study, it's hard to say whether this really means anything. Is there any evidence beyond the anecdotal that interviewing their grandparents would yield a different response? Isn't it quite predictable that 38 percent of any population will be stupid, boring and depressing? After all, half of them will have an IQ of less than 100, by definition.
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Jan '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
America as I understand it is, at least in part, a place where you're supposed to be able to be apathetic about politics, i.e. a place where you don't have to worry too much about having someone else's politics shoved in your face, which was the case in the pre-Westphalian Europe out of which our country evolved. So I don't worry too much about that apathetic 25%; the real question is whether or not they're intelligent enough to recognize tyranny when it rears its seemingly compassionate and sympathetic face.
I do, however, worry about that brainless 13% which seem to be spreading out of the left-hand side of the IQ bell curve.
Edited on Oct 29, 2011 at 11:02pmRe: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
In a country where government is distant and small, lack of opinions on national issues may be a sign of the polity’s success. In a country as centralized and (of late) politically polarized as ours, it’s kind of worrisome, because a lot of these folks are the “independents” and “swing voters” who end up being decisive in some elections. That said, your point that there is an irreducible percent of voters who will always (not) think this way. It's the trend that would be worrisome if they were growing (and voting commensurately).
Of course, there's really no answer past a certain point of civic education. Otherwise, you're necessarily restricting the franchise, which is a total non-starter regardless of how appealing it is to every single person who's ever had an unpleasant political conversation…
May '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Don't regret this contempt. My disdain for my peers (23 yrs old) is of an equal hue.
Oct '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Michael Labeit
Don't regret this contempt. My disdain for my peers (23 yrs old) is of an equal hue. · Oct 29 at 11:22pm
Oh come on. I like people my age. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get good information right now? I can't very well expect everyone I know to spend hundreds of hours reading, listening to audio clips of important regulatory meetings, watching C-Span, and doing all the other things political junkies do.
And if you aren't willing to dedicate hundreds of hours of your time, you won't be informed. It's that simple, and I think a lot of people my age know it.
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
These don't precisely sound like voters, do they?
Dec '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
I have to wonder how much apathy is a mask for conservatism. "Politics" for young people means "liberal politics". With the absolute saturation of media and culture by liberals, it heartens me to hear that young people don't fall for the bien pensant that surrounds them.
It's often preferable to feign ignorance of such things rather than be constantly argumentative.
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Joseph Eagar
Oh come on. I like people my age. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get good information right now? I can't very well expect everyone I know to spend hundreds of hours reading, listening to audio clips of important regulatory meetings, watching C-Span, and doing all the other things political junkies do.
And if you aren't willing to dedicate hundreds of hours of your time, you won't be informed. It's that simple, and I think a lot of people my age know it. · Oct 29 at 11:37pm
This definitely resonates with me. I was apolitical not too long ago simply because I didn't feel "motivated" (I guess you could say) to be a political junkie.
Plus, I was afraid to express what conservative opinions I did have with my friends (the types that would agree with Bill Maher on most things) simply because I wasn't confident or informed enough to discuss these things.
Oct '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
The Census Bureau keeps track of historical voter registration and rates by age, you can find the data here. Not that voting rate or voter registration necessarily means a political or social interest, but it's probably as good a proxy as any, especially for congressional-only elections, which are less publicized and probably more likely to attract those actually interested.
For the 18-24 age group, voting rates have decreased from 31.1% in 1966 to 19.6% in 2010 (table A-7). It could mean that young people don't care as much these days about politics. Or it could mean that modern young people who don't care just don't vote, rather than expressing an uninformed opinion.
You said no anecdotes, but here's mine anyway: the happiest people I know don't care about politics, and try to make a difference in the small things they can immediately control. I try my best to consider these people in the decisions I make, even if they could care less.
Oct '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Yes, half of any sample is below average. That's another reason we have a republic, not a democracy. Actually, there never was such a thing as a "democracy" in the sense of universal enfranchisement, was there? You have "democracy", not "a democracy", or you have chaos and your neighbors eat you.
Half of my grandparents were below average, admittedly, but I do think that what passes for education has driven three quarters of today's young below the mean. Call it the Garrison Keillor effect - too many above-average people in the liberal imagination leaves a concentration of dullards in the real world.
Apr '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Q. Do you think the two biggest problems with "youth" are ignorance and apathy?
A. I don't know and I don't care.
Apr '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
QuickerBrownFox:
For the 18-24 age group, voting rates have decreased from 31.1% in 1966 to 19.6% in 2010 (table A-7). It could mean that young people don't care as much these days about politics. Or it could mean that modern young people who don't care just don't vote, rather than expressing an uninformed opinion.
I can do the research myself, but it seems silly to do so if you have the answer already: 18-year-olds couldn't vote in 1966 (except in some local jurisdictions). (The 26th Amendment wasn't ratified until what, 1975?) Does the table reflect the large influx of 18-20 y.o. in the 1976 federal election? Has the rate stabilized since, say, 1980?
Nov '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
A slightly perverse way to reconstrue the issue is as follows.
Isn't it wonderful, at some level, that a society exists in which many people can afford to be blasé about politics, when many other societies do not afford this privilege?
Consider the parallel with obesity.
Isn't it wonderful, at some level, that a society exists in which many people can afford to be unhealthily fat, when in the past people were required to toil and sweat from dawn till dusk to avoid starvation?
Yes, it really is wonderful.
(Bonus sanguine meditation: Isn't unshakeable political apathy at least better than misguidedly enthusiastic extremism?)
Alas, the wonderfulness of it all goes unappreciated. One problem about being blasé is that one is also blasé about the opportunity to be blasé.
The consequent danger is that, when one can no longer afford to be blasé--when one emerges from the carefree womb into the harsh world--one finds oneself ill-equipped to deal with the aftermath.
Give it a few years. Once the economy melts down, there will be no political apathy left, and we will look back nostalgically on this guilded age of idle indifference.
Edited on Oct 30, 2011 at 2:30amOct '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
I tend to prefer apathetic young people to idealists young people.
A misguided young crowd like the OWS can do real damage to the whole of society, the apathetic ones just cause casualties in campaign strategist offices.
May '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
History, said Eric Hoffer, is made by juvenile delinquents.
Oct '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Even if IQ is somehow related to intelligence, I don't see how it is at all related to being boring or being depressing.
For one thing, I think we all know smart people who are boring, and smart people who are depressing.
For another, I don't think it is predictable at all that in any population (or sample) there will be some set proportion of boring or depressing (or even boring and depressing) people. Again, we've all been to some dinner parties with no boring people, and some made up of only boring people...
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
genferei
Even if IQ is somehow related to intelligence, I don't see how it is at all related to being boring or being depressing.
For one thing, I think we all know smart people who are boring, and smart people who are depressing.
For another, I don't think it is predictable at all that in any population (or sample) there will be some set proportion of boring or depressing (or even boring and depressing) people. Again, we've all been to some dinner parties with no boring people, and some made up of only boring people... · Oct 30 at 3:48am
In any given population, half will be stupider than average. Half will be more boring. And half will be more depressing. The qualities won't necessarily overlap, but definitely, half will be less than average.
And if IQ isn't related to intelligence, what on earth could be?
May '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Emerging adulthood doesn't have a dark side, really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark.
Jun '11
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Glenn the Iconoclast
QuickerBrownFox:
For the 18-24 age group, voting rates have decreased from 31.1% in 1966 to 19.6% in 2010 (table A-7). It could mean that young people don't care as much these days about politics. Or it could mean that modern young people who don't care just don't vote, rather than expressing an uninformed opinion.
I can do the research myself, but it seems silly to do so if you have the answer already: 18-year-olds couldn't vote in 1966 (except in some local jurisdictions). (The 26th Amendment wasn't ratified until what, 1975?) Does the table reflect the large influx of 18-20 y.o. in the 1976 federal election? Has the rate stabilized since, say, 1980? · Oct 30 at 1:12am
Amendment 26 was ratified in 1971 allowing me to vote in my first presidential election in 1972 at 19. I was not an apathetic youth apparently.
Ill-informed? Yes. Apathetic? No.
Nov '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Note that people have been getting smarter over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
What's been declining, in many cases, is the culture that coordinates their intelligences, or that sets the goals their intelligence pursues.
Nov '10
Re: Stupid Young People: A Methodological Question
Note that people have been getting smarter over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
What's been declining, in many cases, is the culture that coordinates their intelligences, or that sets the goals their intelligence pursues.