Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Now that Richard has given you a bracing reminder of the perils of excess student debt grounded in financial common sense, allow me to raise another red flag: your student loans may effect your love life. From NPR:
The increasing debt load of college graduates has affected young people's lives in untold ways, from career choices to living arrangements. Now add another impact on a key part of young adult life: dating and marriage.
Rachel Bingham, an art teacher in Portland, Maine, learned this a few years back, when a guy broke it off after four months of a budding relationship. Among other reasons, he cited her $80,000 in student loan debt.
"He said it scared him," she recalls, "that it really made him anxious. And he just did not want to take on my responsibility."
NPR then goes on to assure us that this phenomenon is not limited to the Portland art teachers of the world (though if there's no hope for them ...):
The issue recently came up in a letter to an advice column at Nerve.com, a pop culture dating website. This time it was a woman wary of a serious relationship because her boyfriend has $150,000 in debt, mostly student loans.
"He was explaining his money stress to me," the woman wrote, "and I started crying because I saw the future I want falling away."
She wrote that she felt "embarrassed" about being so "selfish," and signed her letter, "Am I Being Awful?"
Caitlin Caven, who writes the site's Miss Information column, assured the woman that she's right to take a hard look at things. She suggested that a responsible approach to repayment is more important than the boyfriend's actual — admittedly staggering — amount of debt. Caven says readers also weighed in.
"There were a lot of people saying, 'Dump him, get out,' " she says. "And then there was a lot of backlash, saying, 'Hey, that's unfair. You guys are clearly not thinking about how student debt works in this country. So many people are in debt like that, that you can't just get rid of a good relationship because of it.' "
Caven's right -- up to a point. It obviously makes sense to judge more than one variable when considering the soundness of a relationship. But can we all agree that spending $80,000 to become an art teacher isn't an immaterial consideration in evaluating someone's judgment?
We all know that government's Pavlovian instinct to subsidize higher ed play a huge role in cost inflation (Even Vice President Biden admits this -- though he bizarrely uses it as a rationale for increasing said subsidies). But it's just as big of a problem that people like Ms. Bingham never seem to do a simple cost-benefit analysis of their degree. Thus, what should be the first major investment of their young lives often becomes a massive (and reckless) act of consumption instead.
If you're going to share a checking account with someone someday, that strikes me as a factor worth weighing.
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May '10
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Given that finances are one of the big marriage killers, unless a person is really anxious to chalk up their first divorce, and a lot of stress and disappointment with it, I'd say avoiding someone with an immense pile of debt is a good idea, generally speaking.
Apr '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Wait, I thought young people didn't care about bourgeois things like money. I thought they voted for progressive crap like the environment and gay marriage. Shouldn't these youngsters be happy living in a hovel somewhere making sure that gay couples are living wedded lives of bliss under a stable ozone layer?
Jun '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
I will be in 160K in debt after law school, and I couldn't marry someone who DIDN'T take that into consideration. But marriage is different than a relationship and being dumped for that reason alone is quite shallow. Of course, a responsible person wouldn't ask anyone to marry them until they substantially pay down their debt or are on a clear path to doing so.
But then again, after what the WSJ and other outlets are suggesting, maybe a law degree isn't better financial judgment than being an art teacher...
Oct '10
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
I don't know the law on this, but when you marry somebody (at least in a community property jurisdiction), are the obligations of the spouses pooled? If so, should the marriage end in divorce, are they divided equally between the spouses, or proportionally based upon who incurred them?
I know for sure that regardless of any other factor, if I were debt-free or close to it and looking at assuming half of a debt which would almost certainly preclude accumulating capital in the crucial early years that matter, the head would be screaming “no” regardless of the sentiments of the heart.
Note that this applies even if the debt were incurred for a degree which eventually retired it. As the article linked above makes starkly clear, it hardly matters what you save after you turn thirty—it's what you sock away before that that's the foundation of one's fortune, comfortable retirement, and helping one's children avoid the debt trap.
This may not be romantic, but then we engineers aren't known for that.
Aug '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
My wife came with a mere $8,000 in student loans to pay off (that was 2002). And we paid it off in less than two years.
Because I was trying to build my own business (and nobody did it for me, Mr. President) we spent about six years, just scraping by. Things seem to be on the upswing for us, but I dare say that being frugal together was a bonding experience. So I wouldn't automatically suggest that people split up over debt. If both parties are willing to do the hard work of getting out of debt together, without blaming, it can actually help build a relationship.
EDIT: Whoops! Fixed a crucial typo above.
Edited on July 18, 2012 at 9:39pmAug '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
As a new law grad with a simular load, preach it brother!
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I am amused at the revulsion at the debt load, given the end result and the sterotypcial young people involved. The end result of the debt load is simply less consumption. Isn't less consumption supposed to free us from the mulit-national corporations and lower our carbon footprint to save the planet?
Then again the $6 locally produced pestiside free cipollini onions and the $9 lb. cruelty free tofu vegan bacon at Whole Foods is not going to buy itself I guess.
Edited on July 18, 2012 at 10:14pmMay '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
As Dave Ramsey says, "beans & rice" until the debt is paid off. I cannot imagine $80,000 worth of beans & rice meals.
BTW, Dave is also fairly down on student debt. As the young lady mentioned in the article has seen, an $80,000 albatross around the couple's neck would be an almost impossible task to remove.
My guess, some sort of complete forgiveness of student debt will be trotted out just a little closer to the election. After all, it's the right thing to do. We don't want to punish the graduates for trying to better themselves and to help us make a better society, do we?
That ought to be good for a couple million votes.
Oct '10
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Isn't marriage happening later in life these days? 30-somethings instead of 20-somethings? That student debt should be much smaller by the time marriage is in the offing, assuming you're not a 29-year old undergrad. And this just might be an effective pseudo-conscription program, if we forgive student loans to those who enlist in the Armed Forces. Wouldn't that be ironic!?! Four years of "Conflict Resolution Studies" and you're slogging an M-16 around in Trashkanistan.
The real issue is the way the govt is pimping loans to twerps so as to enrich its intellectual patrons on the hopelessly Leftie campuses. This is about transferring wealth to Dem supporters, not educating the young. Pilli is right, next will be debt forgiveness as the latest Dem vote-buying scheme.
Feb '10
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
I graduated without a cent in debt, from a private university. My parents and grandparents chipped in less than $5,000 for the total 4 years, and I did the rest through scholarships, working up to two part-time jobs, and living very frugally. This included not having a car until I graduated, and even then it was a clunker. I still don't know how I did it, even given all of the above.
Yes, I didn't do it all on my own. I am very grateful to the school and the individuals who gave me scholarships, but they paid for less than half of the total. The rest was me doing my best to live up to the expectations of those people who took their hard-earned money and gave it to me.
I got married a year after graduation, by the way. Waiting until your 30s to get married is another negative trend, a symptom of young adults who have not really matured past their teens yet.
Apr '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
At a certain point adults must be held responsible for their circumstances, but our culture plays a huge role in this situation. Most young people are sent off to college when they are still teenagers. They - and in many cases, their parents - are given the impression that a college education is so valuable that it pays for itself. Go to college, get a great job, pay off those loans. How many 18 year old kids can even conceive of the notion of being a 35 year old with responsibilities, expenses and debts?
When I started college loans were present as just one more normal part of going to college - fill out these loan forms, choose your schedule, pick a meal plan, etc. What did I know consolidation or interest rates? I never had any practical economic education in my public school. Heck, at orientation weekend there were tables hawking credit cards in the student center!
There's a big difference between, say, a 30 year old couple with life experience who commit to a home loan they can't afford and someone just out of high school.
That said, by grad school one should know better.
May '10
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Back to the example of the art teacher with $80k in debt. While she bears ultimate responsibility, where were her parents? Did they push her along the road to college along with her high school counselors?
Colleges are like dives on Bourbon Street, and the financial aid people are like the touts out front handing out free drink tickets. Get 'em in the joint, suck 'em dry, roll 'em out on the street.
I have some sympathy for grads who wake up in their '20s, deep in debt, cold shock of the real world, wondering "everyone told me this was the path to success, what happened?"
Not much sympathy however since my kids all served in the military to earn their college money and benefits. It would be outrageous for every kid who didn't go to college, or who went on their own hook, to get stuck with loan forgiveness for all the art teachers with 80k in debt.
Full disclosure by the way, I started out as an art teacher (although with something like $1,500 in debt that I paid off within two years).
Feb '12
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
It's OK to run up massive student debt. All one needs to do is is take some public job and have the debt discharged in 10 years, thus creating yet another very likely democratic voter and public sector union dues payer.
Apr '12
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Several years ago, I remember explaining to my incredulous grandmother that yes, getting a PhD in philosophy really was the most prudent educational choice. I wouldn't have to incur any debt, so there was no danger of 1) drowning in debts I couldn't pay, or 2) being forced to work a demanding job while putting my future children in daycare for 60 hours a week. And if I did get a job, it would be much more family-friendly than anything I'd be likely to get out of law school.
She thought that sounded pretty silly. But looking back, it really wasn't such unsound reasoning.
Feb '12
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Nick Stuart: Back to the example of the art teacher with $80k in debt. While she bears ultimate responsibility, where were her parents? Did they push her along the road to college along with her high school counselors?
Colleges are like dives on Bourbon Street, and the financial aid people are like the touts out front handing out free drink tickets. Get 'em in the joint, suck 'em dry, roll 'em out on the street.
I have some sympathy for grads who wake up in their '20s, deep in debt, cold shock of the real world, wondering "everyone told me this was the path to success, what happened?"
Preach it, brother!
Some days, I want to just slap everyone who ever told me things like, "You're too smart not to go to college," and "You're to smart to throw your life away and enlist," and "You have to go to college to get a good job!" Yes, I made a series of bad decisions, but my parents, teachers, family, and church family encouraged and led me down that path.
Feb '12
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
To answer the question above, there is no automatic pooling of student loan debts between spouses, though there are a couple ways one spouse's debts can affect the other.
Married students can consolidate their loans together, if they wish.
If the loans are held separately and one spouse passes away, loan companies may try to get assets out of the survivor. (Which is improper, as the one sure-fire way to discharge the debt without paying is to die, but companies try it anyway.)
Income-based repayment goes off household income (pretty sure), so an income-based repayment plan would take into account the spouse's income as well, increasing the amount the couple would have to pay.
My husband and I acquired our student loans after our marriage, so this issue doesn't really apply to us. If I were back on the marriage market, I would not want to date someone in my circumstances, so I can't fault others for making the same call.
Apr '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
This is definitely an issue that I could see Obama jump on before November, and unfortunately it would likely have legs and motivate many young voters. Younger voters support Obama because it's hip and support liberal causes because they want to be "compassionate" or "tolerant;" however, trendy issues like gay marriage or anti-war don't actually impact the lives of most middle class college students and twentysomethings. Loan amnesty would.
How do you counter this: "So bankers, auto executives and home owners can make terrible investments and get bailed out, yet I can't even declare bankruptcy on a stupid loan my parents and guidance counselors advised me to take out when I was barely out of high school?"
Were I less knowledgable about economics, this argument would be pretty darn persuasive. Even as a conservative, amnesty would personally benefit me more than nearly any other policy.
The conservative or libertarian could rationalize that these massive debts were caused by destructive government policies and predatory lenders granted government monopoly status.
The only logical reason for me to opposed this is on the moral principle that hard working taxpayers shouldn't have to bail me out.
Apr '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
A few more thoughts re: above.
How would Romney and Republicans respond to a loan amnesty issue?
A response akin to "Let Them Eat Beans" would definitely not work, especially for any Republican who supported the other bailouts.
The ideal response would be to put Democrats on the defensive with a direct confrontation of the dreadful consequences the federal loan system has had on tuition prices. But could Republicans pull this off? Would they even try?
How about embracing some degree of loan "amnesty" in exchange for an actual overhaul of the federal role in higher education?
Feb '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Troy Senik, Ed.:
But can we all agree that spending $80,000 to become an art teacher isn't an immaterial consideration in evaluating someone's judgment?
It's worse than that. $80,000 is just the debt. What she spent to become an art teacher is probably significantly more, even without considering the opportunity cost.
Aug '11
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
I know that if I had to do it all over again, I'd go to trade school. And I may encourage my own children to do the same.
Feb '12
Re: Student Debt = Romantic Poverty
Cutlass:
How about embracing some degree of loan "amnesty" in exchange for an actual overhaul of the federal role in higher education? · 7 hours ago
How about just making student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy? That'll put all the quasi-private loan companies out of business in no time.