Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Joe Escalante ·
Sep 10, 2010 at 9:26am
Fr. Robert Spitzer, author of New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy, will be on Larry King tonight on CNN correcting some weird stuff Steven Hawking has been saying lately. For a good insight into why I'm part of the Shi'ite wing of the Catholic Church, check out Fr. Spitzer's intellect. I have the privilege of regularly attending his masses in Orange County. Here's some music to get you pumped for the event. files.me.com/chicom/pfmo0f.mp3
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Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Oh my goodness, that music is cruel! (I feel bad admitting that I laughed when I realized what it was.)
I found Stephen Hawking's article in the WSJ this week, "Why God Did Not Create The Universe," a bit baffling. His evidence of why there is no God, to me is evidence that there certainly must be a God.
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
There's an interesting wrinkle to the debate between those who believe in an afterlife and those who don't: the former will only know if they're right; the latter will only know if they're wrong.
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Pat Sajak: There's an interesting wrinkle to the debate between those who believe in an afterlife and those who don't: the former will only know if they're right; the latter will only know if they're wrong. · Sep 10 at 9:44am
Pascal's Wager!
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Hilarious.
Hawking's philosophies are as presumptuous as his physical theories. Intelligence is not wisdom.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Diane Ellis, Ed.:
Sep 10 at 9:38am
Exactly. It takes a real naturalistic commitment to apply the anthropic principle to prove God's non-existence rather than the other way around.
I wish that Larry King also had Frank Tipler and Guillermo Gonzales on, because they can shred Hawking's arguments on a naturalistic basis in ways that Fr. Spitzer, simply by virtue of his position, really can't.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Hawking's spent so much time thinking about the universe, he's incapable of conceiving something bigger. Science can explain so much - as Hawking obviously knows - but it can't explain everything.
It really comes back to a planetary system supporting diverse life happening by accident. Calling that a coincidence takes something awfully similar to... what's the word... faith.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
I haven't studied what Hawking claims in detail, but I can only guess it might be something along the lines of:
It's the last three points (spontaneous creation, causality, and conservation) that require the most "faith" at this point, but I won't rule them out pending a shift in our understanding of some important concepts about existence.
Of course, none of this is evidence against a creator.
Jul '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Ugh. Another time I wish I weren't a scientist.
Science is wonderfully equipped to answer the question "How?" but it gets terribly confused when you ask the question "Why?"- Erwin Chargaff
It bothers me terribly when someone asks "How can you believe in God when you're a scientist?" as if they are mutually exclusive.
Jun '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Imagine the consquenses of proving the existance of God. Is it possible to remain 'free' knowing that God exists beyond a shadow of a scientific doubt? The short answer is no. We deceive ourselves when we demand proof while foregoing the most vital aspect of our relationship with God. By looking for proof of His existance we deny faith, which is to say we deny trust in God. As for Pascal's rediculous wager, PUHLEEEESE. All it says is that God is a fool who would accept some casino player betting the odds while denying faith only to catch the big jackpot, is that faith?
Edited on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:29amRe: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Pascal's Wager!
Sep 10 at 9:52am
Love to know how that turned out for him.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
I disagree. Knowing God exists and knowing God's nature does not mean people are forced to accept or love God.
Interestingly enough, one of the prophecies of the apparitions of Mary at Medjugorje, Croatia is that there will be a permanent and recordable sign of God's existence. I would expect two things to occur in that case. First, many would deny God's existence despite the clarity of God's reality. We witness willful ignorance every day. Second, it would lead to war, rather than peace, because those who hate and fear God will respond in desperation.
God judges each according to the gifts he or she has been given. Pascal's Wager does not preclude a continued search for truth.
Edited on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:39amAug '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Pat Sajak
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Pascal's Wager!
Sep 10 at 9:52am
Love to know how that turned out for him. · Sep 10 at 10:22am
Well, this is how it turned out for him in this life, at least:
Pascal experienced a "year of grace" at age 31 -- a sort of mystical experience, later repudiating some of his earlier work on probability in favor of predestination (which was unfortunate and unnecessary, I think), and I believe ended life a Jansenist.
It began like this:
"In the year of grace, 1654, on Monday, 23rd of November, Feast of St Clement, Pope and Martyr, and others in the Martyrology. Vigil of St Chrysogonus, Martyr, and others.
From about half past ten in the evening until about half past twelve.
Fire!"
You can read the rest of his own report on his mystical experience here.
I believe he repudiated his own wager in the end, as being inconsistent with Jansenism.
Edited on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:56amMay '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
I'm curious as to what exactly is the "Shi'ite wing of the Catholic Church". I'm a convert to the Catholic Church myself, and largely because of intellects like Spitzer's (and Chesterton's and Knox's and Sheed's...not to mention Aquinas, Augustine....)
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Pascal's wager is inconsistent with giving one's self up to God because it is counter to Grace- it is, by its own terms, a self-interested trade to get something of benefit rather than accepting a gift (grace) after acknowledging the verity of God.
But we are on the wrong track here talking about "proof" of any backward-looking event(s). The existence of God and His creation of the universe are not "provable" in a scientific sense- science can help us derive evidence, which then must be weighed in the legal tradition to arrive at a conclusion.
It is amazing how many otherwise bright scientists fail to make that distinction, or to recognize that pre-determined naturalism is itself non-scientific, because it presumes the conclusion. You can hypothesize and develop evidence- but you cannot declare a solution and then rule out any consideration of contrary evidence, which is what, for example, Dawkins does.
But your paint coverage may vary depending on the porosity of the brain being painted.
Edited on Sep 10, 2010 at 1:46pmAug '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Duane Oyen:
Pascal's wager is inconsistent with giving one's self up to God because it is counter to Grace- it is, by its own terms, a self-interested trade to get something of benefit rather than accepting a gift (grace) after acknowledging the verity of God.
True, but don't forget that pragmatic self-interest can serve to open the door for later passion and true self-gift. (Many happy marriages take this course, at least from the woman's point of view.) So although Pascal's wager is inconsistent with total faith, it's still a useful invitation to faith.
I've seen Pascal's wager open doubters' minds, and if Pascal's own life is anything to go by...
Well said.
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Keith,
judging by your influences, I'd say you're in. I got that term from Jim Gaffigan's description of his wife.
I put great trust in the lives of the Saints, and the Church's process for investigating their divine gifts. After absorbing enough Catholic hagiography, the supernatural becomes less bizarre and more of a place where answers are found instead of questions raised.
Jun '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Some things you just have to have a PhD to believe...
If everything 'just happened', that is, if my brain evolved from nothingness and has no intelligence behind it, that is, no intelligent Creator, why should I trust my brain when it tells me things about say... the world's creation......
Jun '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Aaron: ". . . [T]here will be a permanent and recordable sign of God's existence. I would expect two things to occur in that case. First, many would deny God's existence despite the clarity of God's reality. We witness willful ignorance every day. Second, it would lead to war, rather than peace, because those who hate and fear God will respond in desperation."
A recordable sign by your statement is not incontrovertible proof as those that would deny the sign could do so for what to them would be valid reasons. Your sign, Aaron, does not constitute my proof. The wilfully ignorant are so not because proof does not exist, but because it does exist, and this is not a subtle distinction. An atheist is therefore not more wilfully ignorant than a theist as neither can prove their hypothesis beyond doubt. In order to love we must not only accept in the absence of complete information, but we must trust. If I must have proof that God exists, then I can neither trust nor love. If we have proof that He exists then our love cannot be freely given, and as such is not real love.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Joe,
I'm with you on the saints. And I'll add that the saints were able to achieve what they did largely because the Catholic Church's infallible teaching pointed them in the right direction--gave them a good map in which "all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked", as Chesterton said.
May '10
Re: Steven Hawking Meets His Match Tonight On CNN
Cas, I have no idea what the specific nature of that sign would be. The basic idea, from what I understood, was that it would be as obviously true as gravity. One can reasonably question the precise nature of gravity, but one cannot deny it exists without willful dishonesty.
Catholics believe that all human beings are given opportunity to choose to love or not love God. Because God is perfectly just, we assume God does whatever is necessary for each person to know He exists, at least for a moment, so that the person may choose. It is not complete knowledge but sufficient knowledge that is necessary to choose. Catholics also believe that faith and reason, when both are accurate, cannot conflict. Our faith is not blind trust but reasonable trust, and thus requires some knowledge.
Free will cannot exist without knowledge (or "awareness", which implies that knowledge is true). Indeed, freedom increases relative to knowledge. If I ask you to choose between two gifts without revealing them first, then your choice is blind (not very free). If I reveal only their colors, that choice is slightly more free. The more complete your knowledge, the more free your choice.
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