South California Here We Come!
Joe Escalante ·
Jul 1, 2011 at 1:13pm
The recent South California secession movement might be silliness but it underscores the fact that there are two Californias and raises the question of whether all residents should be forced to be governed by a statewide version of the Berkeley City Council.
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Mar '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
I'm afraid you are stuck with the bozos in Berkeley.
I'd suggest a move outa CA...
May '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
Sinkhole de mayo is the funniest thing I have read today.
May '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
The tradeoff is that South California would be vulnerable to the Aztlan movement. You guys can't win.
Aug '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
The real political divide isn't North-South but East West. To a first approximation, all counties on the coast lean left and all inland counties lean right. Splitting the state North-South would just create one state governed by the Berkeley city council and another by the West Hollywood city council. That and a really nasty dispute over water rights and a realignment in the state's congressional delegation stand on IP issues.
Jul '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
If they propose to divide it East-West, take it. Turns two liberal Senators into two liberal and two conservative.
May '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
The East-West divide is a very interesting point, and this official takes that into account. He is not suggesting a straight Northern California/Southern California divide. He calls on specific counties (thoughtfully and thankfully leaving out LA county). From the article linked above:
"Stone said in a statement late Thursday that Riverside, Imperial, San Diego, Orange, San Bernardino, Kings, Kern, Fresno, Tulare, Inyo, Madera, Mariposa and Mono counties should form the new state of South California."
I'd be glad to start a state with these guys.
Re: South California Here We Come!
Kyle Oi: The East-West divide is a very interesting point, and this official takes that into account. He is not suggesting a straight Northern California/Southern California divide. He calls on specific counties (thoughtfully and thankfully leaving out LA county). From the article linked above:
"Stone said in a statement late Thursday that Riverside, Imperial, San Diego, Orange, San Bernardino, Kings, Kern, Fresno, Tulare, Inyo, Madera, Mariposa and Mono counties should form the new state of South California."
I'd be glad to start a state with these guys. · Jul 1 at 3:16pm
WIth that list of counties, "Sane California" might be more descriptive than "South California." Although I don't see why they wouldn't want to take Alpine, El Dorado, Tuolumne, and so on, and get the Sierra watershed.
Dec '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
Can they do that?? I've never thought about it. What is the history of the North/South states? Were they "one" at one time and split up? I guess we're only really talking about the Dakotas. I apologize in advance to the people of North and South Dakota for my ignorance.
Apr '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
If I recall my history correctly, there was an attempt before, the state of "Jefferson" which at the time was a North/South California thing. I believe the movement was derailed by World War II. There are some areas in North California that still have Jefferson signs about.
Correction: There's still something of a movement up north for this.
http://www.jeffersonstate.com/
Edited on Jul 1, 2011 at 4:28pmDec '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
Western, look up the history of West Virginia. The state that presents itself on the map as a "Finger" was carved out of the seccesionist Virginia. Look up Delaware, that used to be known as "the lower 6 counties" of Pennsylvania. Also, Carolina. The geography of NC and SC are so different that they split, and now I think eastern NC is about over and done with the Peidmont and Appalachian portions and wishes it could separate. Eastern NC and SC could easily unite and leave the hippies and government workers to the west to find their own ways to make a living.
There's a book I have somewhere from the Depression Era, titled "The Historical Geography of the United States". It is absolutely fascinating and insightful and I recommend it to people that wonder about boundaries.
Apr '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
You just have to like how the state officials in opposition to this movement belittle, mock, and insult its proponents instead of addressing their concerns. That pretty much sums up the entire impetus behind the movement in the first place.
Nov '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
An "East-West" split could get kinda complicated.
It would be much simpler to divide the state into NoCal and SoCal. Anything south of the El Toro Y becomes SoCal.
Business owners in the "SoCal" area would prosper greatly from this division. It is truly an idea whose time has come.
Jan '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
CU Douglas, thank you. My children & I saw State of Jefferson signs around Yreka during our drive south along I 5 & didn't know the reference. This was before we saw the destruction Congress has created in the central valley. Every Californian should drive to the central valley & see the cost of radical environmentalism. I engaged my captive teenage daughter in a discussion of limited government & it's proper role.
Dec '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
Thanks, CJ. I've added another title to my reading list. There's also a show about how the state lines were drawn on TV. Sorry I can't remember the name.
As I'm an Ohioan originally, my family roped me into watching the show on the fight between Michigan and Ohio over the Port of Toledo. Truly fascinating stuff.
Feb '11
Re: South California Here We Come!
An East-West divide would have a positive effect on the electoral college, the Dem candidate would no longer be able to just assume all of California's 55 votes even if Coastal California would still be a fate accompli for them.
Aug '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
As a native Californian (who fled 16 years ago and have since made my home on the decidedly conservative south coast of Oregon), I can remember as far back as early childhood hearing the arguments of those (primarily in the northern state) who felt thoroughly disenfranchised and permanently aggravated by the south's near-total dominance of the state's political and financial decisions.
The current call for division of the state is nothing more than a new writing of an old manuscript, and one we've seen many times before. Are the arguments valid? Of course-- they struck me as valid 40 years ago. Will they get anywhere? Not a chance! Never have, never will.
Why would the voters of southern California change a system that, as it stands, works completely to their advantage?
Jun '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
I'm a native Californian and have lived here all my life with a brief stint in New Delhi when I was younger. I think the idea actually has a lot of merit and may actually put the fear of God into the Democrats in Sacramento if it gains momentum. I've lived in Sacramento, Alpine County, Tahoe, the Bay Area, San Diego, Los Angeles and now Orange County...born in San Diego. I could easily see some of the northern counties getting on this bandwagon. It seems that a concerted effort by many of counties' boards of supervisors could push it forward and that would inevitably lead to contentious debate and maybe even some fisticuffs...but what would be really interesting would be to see whether a referendum could get on the ballot...because if that happens and its victorious then all hell would break loose.
I noticed on the CBS story that Drudge links to, that 88% of poll respondents are in favor of the idea. Difficult to dismiss a reaction like that.
Jun '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
Shoshanna:
Why would the voters of southern California change a system that, as it stands, works completely to their advantage? · Jul 2 at 12:54pm
Well, that's debatable isn't it? Some of the most prosperous counties in the state including Orange and San Diego have been pretty hard hit with foreclosures and unemployment. There is an abundance of available land in Riverside and San Bernardino counties that could attract large corporations if there was a five to ten year grace period of no "new South California State" taxation. Many business parks in San Diego and Orange counties are like ghost towns with more "For Lease" and "For Sale" signs than operating businesses. I think what's lacking is a detailed plan to cover all political and legal contingencies which would take a lot of minds to pull together. Then a lot of California and non-California members of Congress would have to be convinced that it makes sense and could bring much needed revenue into the federal government. All it takes is some energy behind it and a realistic timeline to pull it off. 2014 is probably too soon...but 2016 could be a workable target date.
Jul '10
Re: South California Here We Come!
"Stone said in a statement late Thursday that Riverside, Imperial, San Diego, Orange, San Bernardino, Kings, Kern, Fresno, Tulare, Inyo, Madera, Mariposa and Mono counties should form the new state of South California."
I’m in the process of writing a 2-page article (one full page one Saturday and another the next) for two local papers on the proposed Clean Energy Park in Fresno. This envisions two nuclear power plants sited in Fresno County for desalinization of water for irrigation and other uses. Many benefits: much needed water, electrical power, jobs, tax revenue, to name a few. Background information is very interesting, especially the moratorium on nuclear power put in place in Governor Brown’s first stint in office. Imagine a governor of W CA heartily approving this were the above county split to become a reality. Imagine the additional benefits…