Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
At the risk of sounding like David Frum, I think that these people have lost their minds.
A coalition of conservative organizations and leaders pledged today to field primary opponents for Republican senators who "unfairly" criticize Sen. Jim DeMint...
"Such false and unfair attacks aid and abet President Obama, the Democratic Party and the liberal media. We consider such attacks on Senator Jim DeMint an attack on us and all conservatives, and especially the conservative movement that is the successor to Ronald Reagan, William F. Buckley, Jr., and other great progenitors of the conservative movement," the coalition said in a letter delivered today to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky...
The coalition promised that "continued attacks, whether indirectly or anonymously, will result in conservatives’ responding in word and deed."
So we now have a litmus test for being True Conservatives- we don't "unfairly criticize Jim DeMint"?
The senator seems to be a good guy- but no one has it all right all the time. When we crash and burn this time around it will more likely be because of these groups- demanding metaphysical purity to their own set of core positions- than because the inside-the-beltway gang reverted to earmarks.
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Sep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
I see nothing wrong with this. It's politics. How is it that people can't send letters like this to leadership and primary those who unfairly attack someone just to get booked on liberal media shows?
Some people still don't get it. Conservatives are done with this these Arlen Spectors, Jim Jeffords, Lincoln Chaffee Lisa Murkowski types.
I find it annoying that these folks are impugned as having "lost their minds". The implication is usually that they are voting against their own interests and they should build a coalition and that's how things get done in Washington, otherwise you are an idiot or crazy.
Of course, this is the line an elite would take. This is what got us here these serial compromises with the leftwing agenda. And this is the core debate in the GOP right now.
"..these groups- demanding metaphysical purity.."
From the letter:
"We do not expect or advocate for ideological purity in the Republican Party, but we do expect the Party’s leadership to rein in those who unfairly attack Senator DeMint, who instead should be given credit for what he has done, and done with such class, honor, humility, dignity and patriotism."
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Franco: I see nothing wrong with this. It's politics.
I'm going to have to side with Duane on this one. Franco, can you imagine some Democratic group issuing a letter that threatens to take action in word or deed with everyone who criticizes Obama? Not only would we on the right have a heyday with that kind of throwback to the Bolshevik purges, but I'm sure many on the left wouldn't put up with that kind of nonsense either.
Feb '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Duane Oyen: ...have lost their minds.
So we now have a litmus test for being True Conservatives- we don't "unfairly criticize Jim DeMint"?
A bit extreme don't you think? I don't see this as a litmus test for conservatism, but a stand against apparent anonymous sniping from those who dislike DeMint.
Diane Ellis, Ed.
I'm going to have to side with Duane on this one.
... everyone who criticizes Obama?
You left out a key word: "unfairly" criticizes. DeMint has been the brunt of a fair bit of unfair criticism. On the one hand he's criticized by moderate Establishment GOP figures; on the other hand he's criticized unfairly by libertarians over his recent quote, in my opinion taken out of context and twisted to imply things he does not believe.
Like Franco, I don't see any problem with this. It's politics-- people are supporting the politicians they think represent them best and are fighting back against what they disagree with and see as unfair.
DeMint is not perfect. I don't always agree with him, but I like most of his results.
Edited on Nov 18, 2010 at 1:07pmMay '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Hey, I've been promoted to "elite"! I feel as though I should be able to sit up in first class or something.
May '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
I'm with both Duane and Diane. Any criticism tossed at a person in power is going to be considered "unfair criticism" by someone, probably someone who also has some power and influence. Let's leave the purity codes and speech codes to the libs. A proper conservative ought to be able to take it and toss it back, and most do very well.
I'm inclined to like DeMint, especially the way he stirs up the pot, but I don't see where he justifies a personality cult.
Edited on Nov 18, 2010 at 4:35pmSep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
"can you imagine some Democratic group issuing a letter that threatens to take action in word or deed with everyone who criticizes Obama?"
No I can''t. Then again, the mafia doesn't have to send it's members a copy of the code of Omerta either.
I think the keyword is unfairly. Of course, that is open to interpretation, but too many Senators try to get facetime on CNN or Meet the Press by bashing conservatives like Jim De Mint. It doesn't help Republicans in general because the purpose of the exercise is not to highlight "reasonable" Republicans like the guy who is doing the distancing, but to attack the conservative agenda by saying in effect, "see, even this guy, who is actually a Republican himself, isn't as crazy as this De Mint fellow"
And really, Diane, it is politics. People are free to do what they wish and vote for Christine O'Donnell instead of Mike Castle, and if they lose the sea,t well then maybe the insiders who anoint the next insider-in-line will consider one who isn't a statist hack and he/she might beat the Tea Party candidate out.
Sep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Duane, I didn't say you were "elite" I just said it was a line one would take. I pray, the Pope prays, that doesn't make me a Catholic or even a Bishop. I wanted to make that more clear but 200 words isn't much, especially when you have to go and find a part of the letter that was (convieniently?) left out of the post.
No you aren't an elite but you might just be thinking like one. They may have gotten to you with their propaganda and memes, like as soon as the GOP takes the House, the use of the word compromise rises exponentially on mainstream political shows.
Duane when they control things it's "we won", "we have a mandate", "the American people have spoken". When the GOP wins, it's "now is the time for us to come together and solve these pressing problems"
"So we now have a litmus test for being True Conservatives-..." This is another unfair remark. The letter said nothing about litmus tests or labels that would or wouldn't be applied to people. They said they may well be primaried. (cont)
Sep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
So let me get this straight Duane, once someone is sucessfully installed by the GOP insiders, voters must dutifully vote for them until they retire or die in office, that right?
Any recourse we great unwashed (not implying you are not also among us) may have? We should just let these be used as tokens to bash our agenda on national television and then tell us, a la McCain, that we conservatives have no alternative and we have to vote for him if we don't want Obama. Statist Republicans have been running on "I'm not the Democrat" for too long and they are going to get primaried if they don't start being reponsible to the electorate. That's politics.
Hell, if the conservative vote is that important to the GOP they should act like it. But they want it both ways. They want their votes but they won't serve their agenda. OK, we know that now. But they have the guile to be outraged that some groups may run candidates against them in a primary? Puleeze...
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Franco: I think the keyword is unfairly. Of course, that is open to interpretation...
My worry is that "unfairly" is too subjective. All criticism could be seen as unfair criticism, especially by people who lack the self-awareness and humility to know what fair criticism would look like.
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Re-reading these comments, I'm sensing that there really isn't all that much we disagree on except for whether we find the "criticism will not be tolerated, comrade" rhetoric alarming or not.
I find it alarming and would like to see less of it. Doesn't mean folks don't have the right to not re-elect a congress person who fails to represent the will of his or her constituents .
Sep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
"especially by people who lack the self-awareness and humility to know what fair criticism would look like."
Ouch... is this really your opinion of the signers of this letter?
And why are you worried that some Republican will have to endure a primary?
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Duane, I'm with you. The manifesto goes beyond ideological purity, I think - it's veering into cult-of-personality territory.
May '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Not sure why the letter is so DeMint-centered. As G.A. Dean says (update: Adam, too), it borders on indulging in a cult of personality. That's the kind of goofy stuff liberals do. I hope (and suspect) DeMint himself is embarrassed by the sentiment. If not, it reflects poorly on him.
If Gov. Daniels, for instance, believes DeMint is foolish for his occassional over-the-top comments on social issues, would it diminish his conservative credentials one bit if he said so, regardless if some smitten DeMint supporter considered his comments unfair? Of course not. This is silly.
Edited on Nov 18, 2010 at 3:29pmRe: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
Franco: "especially by people who lack the self-awareness and humility to know what fair criticism would look like."
Ouch... is this really your opinion of the signers of this letter?
No, in fact the first listed signatory is the dad of a college pal of mine. I'm saying that "unfair" in general is too subjective a caveat, and that someone who lacked humility and self-awareness might categorize all criticism as unfair criticism.
Jul '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
"unfair" = liberal
Jul '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
First reaction: It's a silly statement...I'm not sure it even rises to the level of stupidity.
Second reaction: the signatories see DeMint's operation as the only really successful candidate selection operation in the last season (arguable); know that a lot of DeMint's colleagues don't like him for purely personal reasons (true); and suspect that shivs are being touched up for use on DeMint while everyone's waiting in line at the Senate Dining Room (almost certainly true).
Third Reaction: no, really, it's silly. If Jim DeMint is the only politician I can rely upon, the Republic is in deeper trouble than we thought.
Jul '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
I've now read the whole letter, and it seems not just silly, but a little weird.
Edited on Nov 18, 2010 at 4:54pmRe: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
I'm with Duane. I like Senator DeMint. A lot. I would welcome a letter supporting an overhaul of the NSRC--how about calling for the national party to stay out of the primaries and focus on general election candidates? But making this about Jim DeMint personally takes it a step too far.
Sep '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
What we have here in the original post is insult and distortion. The insult "lost their minds". Okay, politics is a rough and tumble business, I'm not calling for more civil discourse, I'm calling for Duane to back up the statement.
So far, nothing. How have they lost their minds, Duane? I'm interested in your explanation. I think this may go a long way in fleshing this out.
Again with the ideological purity phrase, despite in the letter which I had to point out in my first comment specifically notes:
""We do not expect or advocate for ideological purity in the Republican Party, but we do expect the Party’s leadership to rein in those who unfairly attack Senator DeMint,..."
"cult-of-personality" in reference to Jim De Mint? A bit of a stretch...I really can't see it. To some people dissent from the masses is met with the same tired retoric and easy labels, but no substance... "litmus test" "ideological purity" "cult of personality" - just empty phrases from people who, I guess, like to bestow inaccurate labels, distort by omission and call people crazy when they don't agree with them.
Jul '10
Re: Sorry, Gang, This Manifesto From Conservative Organizations Is Nonsense
I await a more conservative positions on the front page rather than the capitulation "conservatives" unintentionally hilarious screeds. Perhaps Mark Steyn will visit soon.
They took a political position. You disagree with it. Fine.
But to say "people have lost their minds" you engage in the criticisms that you allege against this Conservative Coalition organization.
Irony thy name is Duane Oyen.