Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Finally, we've got some clarity on the subject of climate change. Gathering in sunny, fun, cruise-ship-friendly Cancun -- and how do they pick these places? -- global environmental bureaucrats are fretting in keynote speeches and breakout panels about just how to stop the climate from changing.
One paper to be delivered has the solution: stop economic growth in the west. From the Daily Telegraph:
In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.
Stopping economic growth is an outlandish and crazy idea, right? I mean, how could anyone manage to pull that off? Think of the complicated moving parts that would have to work together. First, you'd have to create an enormous public sector pension problem, then add to it tax hikes, then figure out some way to pile on huge government deficits, then engineer, somehow, a money-printing central bank and top it all off by enacting enterprise-killing regulations. Impossible!
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Aug '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Rob Long:
Stopping economic growth is an outlandish and crazy idea, right? I mean, how could anyone manage to pull that off? Think of the complicated moving parts that would have to work together. First, you'd have to create an enormous public sector pension problem, then add to it tax hikes, then figure out some way to pile on huge government deficits, then engineer, somehow, a money-printing central bank and top it all off by enacting enterprise-killing regulations. Impossible! ·
Ah, at least we will be "saving the planet".
May '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
At some point, though, all that money-printing will bring diminishing returns from an environmental standpoint. Unless, of course, the Fed starts printing greenbacks on 100% post-consumer materials (similar to Starbucks napkins). They can put the green logo right under the Great Seal.
Aug '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
A few years ago, I took the daughter of a dear friend -- who is sadly no longer with us -- to see Gorbachev give a speech in Pasadena. The young woman, though conservative, was interested in studying the Soviet Union and modern Russia when she went to college, and has since done so.
What was remarkable about the speech was the way that Gorbachev, who was discussing climate change and environmentalism, had substituted "Green Language" for the words "Peace and Freedom" in what was essentially a traditional Communist speech. He wanted to use the green movement as a way to create global revolution. He did this in much the same way as Frank Pierson inserted "corporate globalism" for Bourgeoisie in his 2003 USC Commencement address (transcript is accurate based on my memory of the event).
Communists are constantly looking for new rhetorical tools to advance their cause. Environmentalism is their latest tool. Never mind that innovation, invention, and the market are the most likely founts of solutions to the problems we face.
Jul '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Actually Mr. Anderson is incorrect.
Modern economies are clean.
What you want is for Third World countries to never develop, because those are the ones who have to go through the Industrial Revolution again. You don't go from knitting shirts to mass production in a green facility overnight.
Oh yeah. You'd also like to stop China from doing anything, as they are the worst global polluter pretty much ever.
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Exactly. Why is this so hard for environmentalists to get?
Aug '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
North Korea = Green Paradise on Earth
Jun '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
The funny thing about environmentalist is that the purport to see the world as complete whole--the environment. Yet, they fail to grasp that you cannot stop one part of a complex mechanism, such as a watch, without causing the whole mechanism to seize up.
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
In a lot of ways, this just displays the fundamental issue that the left has when it comes to solving these types of matters, whether it be the environment, economy, or anything else. Their solutions seem so rarely based in reality but only in theory that it loses any chance of being even a logical argument.
May '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
This presentation by Prof. Richard Muller at Berkeley is a bit more fatalistic about the principle of CAGW than most of us accept (in actuality, he is right in line with Bjorn Lomborg, also a "luke-warmer" who is not into economically catastrophic policy solutions). But the key point, which he shows on a graph, is that what the developed world does is completely irrelevant- our contribution in the future is flat, while China and India are exponential. If you are worried about CAGW, only modernization and technology can save that situation.
Check this hour-long video at about the 3 minute mark to see his chart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcqbTRTZoGU&feature=related
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Thanks, Duane! That's really fascinating. The whole video is about an hour, but you can skip around and profit from it. I'm posting it here, for anyone who's interested:
May '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Rob Long
Exactly. Why is this so hard for environmentalists to get?
This is because 'climate change' is not about the environment, it is about the redistribution of wealth from the First to Third World.
"If you needed any more evidence that the entire theory of manmade global warming was a scheme to redistribute wealth you got it Sunday when a leading member of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change told a German news outlet, "[W]e redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy.""
I would note that the Enviro-Leftys got smart this year. Not only did they hold their conference in a posh location, but they chose one that wouldn't have the inconvenient backdrop of snowfall confusing their message (Gore Effect).
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
There are two aspects to Climate Change. There is the science and there is the policy.
I know most here will disagree with me, but the science is real. Our climate is changing and it is being driven in part by human causes.
Then there is the policy part. Unfortunately, we've allowed the left to control the debate on policy. Rather than offer reasonable alternatives, the right has for the last couple of decades resorted to various degrees of denial. Harsh, but true. I agree that the left is not so much interested in true environmentalism as it is in using this to further traditional progressive ideologies, but this has led to another problem. Very often those on the right use the crack-brained solutions offered by the left as evidence to deny science that shows climate change is happening. That's just bad logic.
So can we think of free market alternatives to "Drill, baby, drill"?
As much as people make fun of T. Boone Pickens, hes on the right track. By focusing on natural gas, he chose a cleaner fuel that can serve as a viable alternative to reducing emissions as we developed even cleaner technologies.
Edited on Nov 29, 2010 at 8:55pmJun '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Great video, thanks Duane!
chadn737: I know most here will disagree with me, but the science is real. Our climate is changing and it is being driven in part by human causes.
Edited on Nov 29 at 08:55 pm
I agree with those 2 statements: yes the planet has warmed (slightly), will probably continue to do so, and human activity is a contributing factor. The science is real to that extent, but all the headline grabbing claims by the likes of Al Gore about killer hurricanes, sea levels rising 30 feet, and so on was junk science and has been debunked.
So what are we left with? Yes there are costs associated with rising temperatures, but there are also benefits such as more arable land and longer growing seasons. We will need both to feed the rising global population.
My real quarrel is not with the science, but with the Green ideology that views nature as "pristine" and any man-made changes as ipso facto bad.
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Joseph Stanko:
So what are we left with? Yes there are costs associated with rising temperatures, but there are also benefits such as more arable land and longer growing seasons. We will need both to feed the rising global population.
It would be nice if that were the case, but it is unlikely to be so. Increased CO2 concentrations in theory and under experimental conditions help the yields of C3 crops, but not those of C4 crops. However, increased temps increase the demands on water consumption, which is already at critical levels in many areas (the American Southwest for one). Warmer climates is also more favorable to pests and diseases and facilitate their spread and persistence North. Historically winter colds helped lower the founding population of insects the next year, but with warmer temperatures, greater numbers can overwinter. Temperature changes also affects precipitation, making it more unpredictable.
Climate Change will benefit some areas agriculturally while being a disaster for others. Which ones those are is speculative. But the idea that it is beneficial is also as speculative and unlikely as the outrageous claims of the likes of Gore.
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Joseph Stanko:
My real quarrel is not with the science, but with the Green ideology that views nature as "pristine" and any man-made changes as ipso facto bad. · Nov 29 at 10:55pm
I agree with that, but I also see a problem with the mainstream trend on the center-right which ranges from skepticism to outright denial. While the left goes to far in their attempts to impose immediate solutions on all of us, the right often goes to far in its refusal to take the problem seriously and its willingness to offer any solutions.
I also have a deep rooted problem with what it does to science. It cheapens it, makes a mockery of it, and ultimately creates a hostility towards science that is unprecedented. The blame belongs to both sides. Individuals like Gore cheapen and make a mockery of the facts. However, the right is not innocent in this either. It often uses its dislike of Gore, and green-marxists as a sort of ad hominem argument for throwing out not just the crack-brained solutions, but also the sound science.
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Wow. This is interesting stuff, Joseph and Chadn737. Who would have thought that here in the pages (screens?) of Ricochet we'd have actual debate on AGW!
I'm glad we do. I've got zero aptitude for science, but was impressed by Bjorn Lomborg's "The Skeptical Environmentalist" enough that I'm forced to rethink my initial -- and yes, Chadn737, sort of ad hominem -- resistance to the whole idea of AGW.
So, now that we're having this discussion, what do you two see as solutions to this (smaller, less significant) problem?
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Rob Long:
So, now that we're having this discussion, what do you two see as solutions to this (smaller, less significant) problem?
This will take a few posts.
To quote the Hitchhikers Guide "Don't Panic." That's what the left has done, the end result is....well you see their ideas. The fact is that climate change happens. Our ancestors were forced to deal with this as recently as the little ice age which began in the 1300s AD. Rather than panic and attempt to maintain the status quo or turn back the clock, which is what the left wants to do, we adapt and stabilize.
We stabilize by using rational adoption of 'greener' (not necessarily "green") technologies. Heres one that may restore my Conservative credentials, use nuclear power. Emissions are near zero and using the technologies adapted by countries like France, which get the majority of their power from Nuclear, we can improve the safety and efficiency. This could be improved even further if we actually recycled spent fuel rods like the French do, but which we don't because of Nuclear arms treaties. This allows us to maintain energy consumption while reducing emissions.
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
There is a lot of criticism of Ethanol and justifiably so. American Ethanol is based on simple sugars obtained in grain corn. You get something like a little over a gallon of Ethanol for every gallon of gasoline you put in. Its not efficient. My father is a midwest Corn farmer, so it took me a while to shuck that bias.
Brazil is often touted for its high use of Ethanol fuel. Brazil obtains its Ethanol from Sugar Cane which yields around 8 gallons of Ethanol for every one gallon of gasoline. Sugar Cane has limited growing ranges in the US, but alternatives like Sweet Sorghum which can be grown in the corn belt have the same sorts of yields.
Its not just that its environmental and helps reduce oil dependency, but it offers a viable alternative for Midwest farmers. Think of current subsidies which go to maintain overproduction of a handful of crops like Corn and Soybeans. End those subsidies and you will put a lot of working farmers out of business. However, in the long term they have helped destroy the family farm. They need alternative solutions. Your killing multiple birds with one stone.
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Also along those lines. Natural Gas. Its many times cleaner than oil. Particularly when it comes to the nastier greenhouse gasses like Sulfur Dioxide which do more to damage the environment than simply contribute to Global Warming. Its also very abundant in the US, much more so than oil. We've been talking about energy independence from the Mideast for years. This can help while at the same time creating jobs at home.
I could go on about listing alternatives, but there are several more general points that need to be made.
1) There is no singular solution. We need to have utilize multiple solutions.
2) Rather than jump on emission free technology that is not ready (electric cars, solar) use reduced emission technology that is. Rather than make a leap, you take baby steps.
3) Being greener doesn't mean abandoning free market or conservative ideals. On the contrary, they can be used to promote them. I reference once again Ethanol production. Encouraging farmers to use alternative crops that are ready to go right now can help reduce dependency on farm subsidies, leading to their elimination, while making Ethanol more viable allowing us to eliminate Ethanol subsidies.
Oct '10
Re: Solution to Global Warming? Easy! Stop Economic Growth.
Then there is the long term adaptation. The left needs to just accept that you can't go back. That doesn't mean the world ends in a "Day after Tomorrow" scenario. Instead it offers the free market the opportunity to develop technology that will enable us to survive in a changing climate. Major biotech companies have invested heavily in recent years into drought resistance and other research that will enable them to develop crops that can continue to produce in a more water scarce environment. In fact water scarcity is a problem even without climate change. Once again, the American southwest where population pressure has put tight demands on water supplies and where cities now battle with farmers and golf courses over water rights. Even if Global Warming is a hoax, you still have an environmental problem that is in need of a solution. Water shortages are even worse in 3rd world countries.
The left has hair-brained solutions, but the right rarely tries to address these issues, that's why the left dominates the debate and we simply react. We need to take the initiative and give viable alternatives that also do not compromise our values.
Edited on Nov 30, 2010 at 8:07am