Social Conservatism and Millenials
Over the weekend, I ran into this study by the Public Religion Research Institute. It is essentially a poll surveying the attitudes of Millenials on several social issues. The two biggest on the list were attitudes about gay marriage and abortion.
Michael New has a post about it over at NRO, and the folks at Bloggingheads.TV have also produced a discussion (warning: not conservative, but interesting).
The key interesting result of the study appears to be a de-coupling among Millenials of the social conservative positions on these two topics. That is, Millenials tend to oppose abortion in roughly the same degree as their parents. But there is a gap between parents and their kids on the issue of gay marriage.
So, Ricochet, do we believe what we're reading? Is this a function of youth, or are we seeing a generational shift on social issues? As these kids and young adults get older, will their opinions resemble those of their parents, or will social conservatism 10-15 years from now look significantly different?
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May '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
I'm a Millenial who works for a young conservative organization. The pattern you show looks about right from what I am seeing. The (and, granted, most of them are conservative leaning) students I talk to are still strongly pro-life. I don't think that will change with a generation - especially as more and more scientific proof shows how complex conception is.
Gay marriage, on the other hand has become more acceptable. Much more so even since I was in high school. I think a lot of it has to do with the sigma of being gay washing away as more homosexuals have come out over the years. I really think this one is a losing battle. Even a lot of young conservatives who don't approve of the lifestyle are more open to gay marriage or at least civil unions w/ equal rights. I don't think we'll even be having this discussion in 15 years after the baby boomers start to leave us.
Overall, however, as Millenials get older, have children, and provide for their families I believe they will still turn more socially conservative w/ gay marriage being the exception to the rule.
Edited on Jun 13, 2011 at 1:10pmMay '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
That makes sense. Marriage laws and homosexuality are more complicated issues than abortion (Is it a human person or isn't it?).
Also, gays are advertised like a great new product throughout entertainment media. Abortion is an inherently unpleasant topic — not likely to be a recurring theme on Desperate Housewives or play a role in Hollywood's next romantic comedy.
May '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
A lot of years, a lot of heroes and a lot of trial and error have gone into the pro-life cause since Roe v. Wade.
The pro-marriage cause is only just beginning to find its legs, its rhetoric and its champions.
Mainstream media, Hollywood, etc. have been working hard to normalize homosexuality and to stigmatize those who oppose its normalization. And they're having some success. But I predict it won't last. Because "truth will out." Especially moral truth.
As a nation we've come to rest in the abolition of slavery, women's sufferage, and de-segregation. Why? Because of the moral truth underlying those causes.
Why haven't we come to rest in Roe v. Wade? Because of the moral evil of abortion.
Moral right and wrong, good and bad, are never inevitable. They are always freely chosen--on both the individual and social levels. And no matter how grim its chances look, we have to keep fighting for what's right and resisting what's wrong.
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
I agree with every word Crooked Copy says. And I'm a Millenial too, FWIW.
Anecdotally, I can say that I'm noticing a trend toward libertarianism among my peers. Folks I've gone to school with and kept up with since graduating seem to be pretty fiscally conservative and socially liberal, though abortion is definitely the exception. The motto seems to be "whatever floats your boat....UNLESS you're hurting someone else." It's difficult to make a clear, persuasive case that gay marriage hurts anyone, but pretty simple to understand that abortion terminates the life of an innocent.
Jun '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
I see the same thing with my young Soldiers, and this goes back to before the repeal of DADT. Please bear in mind that it's very hard to overstate exactly how conservative an organization the Army is; as a group, our culture is probably to the right of the Birchers on most things. So when a majority of young troops either favor equal opportunity in marriage laws and military service or are simply indifferent, there's definitely a change in the wind. On the other side of things, I notice more pro-life sentiment now than I did 10 years ago.
Aug '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
I'm a "millenial" too. And absolutely unable to understand what's supposed to make us millenials so special.
But I'd agree that people my age feel that having an abortion breaks a taboo that wanting to marry someone of the same sex does not.
Apr '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Diane summed it up very well. It's easy to see a victim when an abortion has been performed. But who exactly is victimized when two people marry each other? If society and the institution of marriage can abide people getting divorced and married six times, or death-row inmates getting married, it's not going to crumble because homosexual marriages are giving legal recognition. And keep in mind, many of our grandparents or at least great-grandparents very likely believed it was immoral for people to marry outside their race.
May '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
There's the rub. Society is already crumbling. The title of Steyn's upcoming book is not a joke.
Marriage is the most primitive social act in human history. It exists in the most tribal societies. It precedes government. Governments rise and fall, yet people continue to be married in the anarchy between. Traditions regarding the meaning and nature of family are the foundation of any society, because family is the most basic realization of social contracts. They form the most basic social structure onto which all legal codes are built.
Marriage is the last tradition to go. As goes the fate of marriage, so goes the fate of our nation. It's not looking good.
Aug '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Aaron Miller
Marriage is the most primitive social act in human history. It exists in the most tribal societies. It precedes government.
It's possible that not killing your babies is even more primal than marriage.
Marriage, after all, takes society -- if only primitive society. Killing your own babies runs against even animal instinct.
Mar '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
I, too, am a Millenial (right on the cusp of falling into that category). I agree with Diane and Crooked.
While I notice a difference between me and my younger siblings on issues of technology, for example (I can remember a time without the internet. They can't), I also anecdotally think the findings of the poll are accurate as to the opinions of Millenials. Its one of the reasons that I posted on the subject.
I also think there's been a lot of ink spilled on what makes Millenials different--occasionally there is an interesting insight there, but much of it is overwrought.
Hollywood has pushed liberalization on both of these issues. MTVs 16 and Pregnant being an example. Despite this, the Pro-Life movement has remained strong (a good sign for our side).
Casey--I share your observations in my young sailors.
Aug '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
The problem is that it's not about legal recognition, it's about recognition by everybody. If it was merely a legal status issue, then civil unions would be enough. But the whole point of Gay Marriage is to stigmatize anyone who thinks that there is any meaningful difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality.
This demonstrates the appalling confusion in this matter. When people opposed miscegenation, it was the relationship itself that they wanted to prohibit; it wasn't that they didn't think it was marriage. No one is trying to prevent homosexual relationships, just recoiling at the idea that they're the same as heterosexual ones.
Aug '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Aaron Miller
Marriage is the most primitive social act in human history. It exists in the most tribal societies. It precedes government. Governments rise and fall, yet people continue to be married in the anarchy between. Traditions regarding the meaning and nature of family are the foundation of any society, because family is the most basic realization of social contracts. They form the most basic social structure onto which all legal codes are built.
Marriage is the last tradition to go. As goes the fate of marriage, so goes the fate of our nation. It's not looking good.
The underlying issue, as I keep pointing out here and there, is feminism, which has managed to brainwash practically everyone, conservatives included, into thinking there's something wrong with making gender distinctions. Young people have grown up in a bizarro world completely dominated by this idea. It's creepy, but quite predictable, that they would be not only completely tolerant of homosexuality but accepting of the idea that the gender of one's spouse is a matter of complete indifference.
I don't think there has ever been a civilisation with as demented a conception of human sexuality as ours.
Jan '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Crow's Nest:
While I notice a difference between me and my younger siblings on issues of technology, for example (I can remember a time without the internet. They can't).
I'm a Gen-Xer (just barely!) and I notice the same thing when I tutor high school students: Google isn't just their reference source and library of choice, it's the only one they've ever heard of.
Aaron Miller
Marriage is the most primitive social act in human history. It exists in the most tribal societies.
This issue came up before on Ricochet and -- at the risk of quoting myself -- it's simply incorrect. Monogamous, exclusive, life-long marriage is something that has come out of civilization, not something ingrained in us.
As for the issues at hand, I'm glad to see them decoupled. All family/sex/marriage issues do not follow from and into each other and pro-lifers risk losing a wide constituency by insisting otherwise. When I was in college, the president of the campus pro-life society was also the president of LBGT club. That's going to be commonplace in the future.
Mar '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
“Overall, however, as Millenials get older…I believe they will still turn more socially conservative w/ gay marriage being the exception to the rule.”
I think what we define as social conservatism is going to undergo a change. That doesn’t mean that some portion of the population won’t still be against gay marriage and abortion, but I would not be surprised to see, circa 2025, a strong social conservative coalition that condemns hook-up culture regardless of sexual orientation and instead seeks to foster permanent, long term relationships (either civil union or marriage) for all. This has consequences for adoption as well, for example.
“The underlying issue…is feminism, which has managed to brainwash practically everyone…into thinking there's something wrong with making gender distinctions.”
Let me turn your world upside down, Paul. I heartily support both gender distinctions and same-sex marriage. Demeaned concepts of sexuality? That's a bit hyperbolic, no? Take a look into the erotic habits (abuses?) of ancient Athens, take a stroll around Pompeii, examine the practices of the harems of the East, or think about the view of sex engrained in the rape laws of Shariah.
Mar '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
“Marriage is the last tradition to go. As goes the fate of marriage, so goes the fate of our nation. It's not looking good.”
Aaron, I probably agree with you in a certain sense here, but probably not the one that would come immediately to mind.
The meteoric rise of illegitimacy and bastardry (that is so a technical word here, CoC enforcers) among the white underclass, in addition to the poor of almost every other group except Asian-Americans, presents a more dire social danger than gay marriage. In this connection, I highly recommend Charles Murray’s recent discussion of this issue at AEI.
(Full disclosure: I don’t think Murray is right on a number of issues, but here I think the social science is largely one-directional and supports his argument)
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Obviously marriage as an institution is not in great shape. But when we talk about what's worse -- out-of-wedlock births or redefining the institution to include same-sex partnerships -- it's kind of comparing apples and oranges.
Separating sex from procreation from marriage -- as many things do, but the Vaughn Walker decision on Prop 8 comes to mind in particular -- has ramifications I don't think we've begun to think about. Namely, this threatens quite a few religious institutions and will dramatically change the way we discuss gender roles. I don't think people have really thought through any of the ramifications and how far-reaching they will be.
Just by way of example, I can't think of a single reason for including same-sex unions in marriage that wouldn't also apply to polyamorous situations. If you can think of one, I'm all ears. But if gender is arbitrary, the limitation to one partner is insane.
Jan '11
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Crow's Nest:
The meteoric rise of illegitimacy and bastardry (that is so a technical word here, CoC enforcers) among the white underclass, in addition to the poor of almost every other group except Asian-Americans, presents a more dire social danger than gay marriage. In this connection, I highly recommend Charles Murray’s recent discussion of this issue at AEI.
I heartily second that recommendation. By the way, were you saying that you disagreed with some of Murray's presentation, or with issues outside of of his AEI speech?
Crow's Nest:
Let me turn your world upside down, Paul. I heartily support both gender distinctions and same-sex marriage.
Hear, hear! In fairness, one of the better arguments against gay marriage is that it will tend to add gender confusion in a world that already has too much of it. But why one can't acknowledge this and then say "Okay, so let's do gay marriage while also doing things to minimize its regrettable side effect" is beyond me.
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Tom Meyer
Hear, hear! In fairness, one of the better arguments against gay marriage is that it will tend to add gender confusion in a world that already has too much of it. But why one can't acknowledge this and then say "Okay, so let's do gay marriage while also doing things to minimize its regrettable side effect" is beyond me. · Jun 14 at 9:29am
You do realize that in order to include same-sex couples in marriage, you have to obliterate gender distinctions, right? Read the Vaughn Walker ruling which says that gender is no longer important in marriage. Considering that marriage has been, by definition, an institution based around gender distinctions and the possibility of children, this is a radical change. Whatever else you might say about it, it wouldn't *minimize* the gender issue.
Aug '10
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
There are some prudential considerations:
Most of us seem inclined to want our spouse/partner all to ourselves (we may be willing to settle for less than that, but it's settling, not the goal). Most of us know that sexual jealousy is a difficult emotion to keep in check -- that sexual jealousy is an unusually powerful temptation to violent, cruel, and irresponsible behavior.
And anyone who's not incredibly stupid or narcissistic should be able to recognize that, if this is what we want for ourselves, then it's probably what others want from us.
On the other hand, if people are willing to forfeit their "rights" to sexual jealousy in order to form a polyamorous cluster, what, other than the observation that this is probably an unwise move for the average person, could be said against it?
Re: Social Conservatism and Millenials
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
On the other hand, if people are willing to forfeit their "rights" to sexual jealousy in order to form a polyamorous cluster, what, other than the observation that this is probably an unwise move for the average person, could be said against it? · Jun 14 at 10:03am
Yep. And now, how might that affect something like health insurance benefits for spouses? Or what about other spousal benefits? Anyone see any unintended consequences there?