Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Peter Robinson ·
Oct 9, 2010 at 9:47pm
From Ricochet reader Col. Scott Murray, U.S. Air Force, a snapshot taken from a Blackhawk helicopter during the flight from Bagram air base to Kabul.
[This] is the view out the gunner's door (gun is visible) as we dove down into the valley of Kabul....[W]hat an Afghan neighborhood looks like from above.
I don't know about your reaction to this photograph, my fellow Ricochetians, but here's mine: There are just one whole heck of a lot of places for bad guys to hide down there. To Col. Murray and all the Americans placing themselves in harm's way to give Afghanistan a chance at some modicum of normalcy: Thanks.
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Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Yep.
Watch Restrepo, Sebastian Junger's excellent documentary of the lives a company of American soldiers in Aghanistan. Months and months of humping up and down vertiginous mountains, searching for an enemy they never find and trying to ingratiate themselves with devious tribal elders who declare jihad on them the minute they leave the village.
I've never seen good men work so hard for so little return in all my life.
Wrong war. Wrong country. Wrong strategy. Wrong tactics.
Wrong.
Edited on Oct 9, 2010 at 10:12pmJun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Thank you for the heads up, Kenneth. I'll make sure to catch that movie as soon as I'm able.
And thank you for the recognition, Peter.
Jul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Casey Taylor: Thank you for the heads up, Kenneth. I'll make sure to catch that movie as soon as I'm able.
And thank you for the recognition, Peter. · Oct 9 at 10:22pm
Junger also wrote a book about it, called War. The DVD doesn't release until December 7.
Jun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
I will certainly pick that up. I really enjoyed Fire, but I haven't followed him since Vanity Fair took a hard left after the Iraq invasion.
Jul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Just because he feeds at their trough doesn't mean he drinks their kool-aid.
He came under withering fire from the Left for Restrepo, because there wasn't a shred of ideology in it. The Lefties seemed to feel that anything put to film about the U.S. war in Afghanistan is absolutely required to follow the party line.
Honestly, having read the book and watched the film, I still haven't the slightest idea what his political view is. But it's clear that he admires - even reveres - our troops. And I admire the fact that he shared their rough suffering and exposure for 18 months.
Jun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Kenneth
And I admire the fact that he shared their rough suffering and exposure for 18 months. · Oct 9 at 10:48pm
And there's the clincher for me. During the Iraq invasion my unit had two embeds - from Le Monde, strangely enough - who were nice, but not really into living rough with a bunch of grunts. I tried not to let that experience color my perception of journalists, but I haven't spoken to any other servicemembers who've had a positive experience with embeds. This gives me hope.
May '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
The 455th detachment to my company is down there as we speak. One of our guys, Specialist Bibolov, traveled to Afghanistan in the 80s when he was enlisted in the Red Army and took part of the Soviet invasion. Now he's returned, but with NATO this time.
May '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Here's our little story (albeit in mobile form- I'm typing with my cell): http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=E84046481D0D64B4AC6C.2934?site=newsday&view=search_results_item&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=breakingnews&feed:i=1.1747636&nopaging=1
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Casey Taylor: Thank you for the heads up, Kenneth. I'll make sure to catch that movie as soon as I'm able.
And thank you for the recognition, Peter. · Oct 9 at 10:22pm
"Thank you" doesn't begin to cover it.
Jul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Casey Taylor: Thank you for the heads up, Kenneth. I'll make sure to catch that movie as soon as I'm able.
And thank you for the recognition, Peter. · Oct 9 at 10:22pm
"Thank you" doesn't begin to cover it. · Oct 10 at 12:38am
Yeah, I practically get weepy-eyed every time I see uniformed U.S. military in an aiport. I practice how to say "thank you" without seeming like an awkward school-girl. But finally, I've decided that those two simple words and an extended hand say it well enough. They get it.
May '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Imagine having to clear this. Imagine having to do this because of these.
Thankfully, not everything our soldiers see is unpleasant.
Thanks again to all our soldiers and veterans!
Jul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
I went to Afghanistan in 1971 on a climbing expedition. Ever since the Russian invasion I have tried to visualize how anyone could hope to successfully fight a war in a country like that. There is an incredible sameness to the population despite the multiple racial groups. Determining who is Taliban from who is not has got to be insane. The Russian film 9th Company is probably the most honest and clearest picture of the dilemma. Add to the terrain that the vast majority of Afghans are devout Muslims who under the best of circumstances have little or no tolerance for foreigners, particularly non-Muslim foreigners, and you have very unfriendly neighborhood in which to operate. It is very difficult to imagine any circumstance under which a "victory" can be achieved. The Taliban is indigenous force which will always have the greater advantage. Villagers and civilians generally understand that if they help the infidels they will pay later on when the infidels leave. It is not a country that will ever have democracy. What its people really want is simply to be left out of international politics. They aren't any fonder of Arabs than they are of Americans.
May '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
For those interested in Restrepo, you can see a preview here: http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/restrepo/
Also be sure to catch some guy named Peter Robinson interviewing Sebastian Junger on NRO last June: http://tinyurl.com/29yea4y
Edited on Oct 10, 2010 at 10:06amRe: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Kenneth:
Watch Restrepo, Sebastian Junger's excellent documentary of the lives a company of American soldiers in Aghanistan.
Wrong war. Wrong country. Wrong strategy. Wrong tactics.
Wrong. · Oct 9 at 10:10pm
As Charles Allen notes, Kenneth, I interviewed Sebastian Junger for Uncommon Knowledge this past summer, just after his book War came out. I gave Junger one chance after another to diss the war, the commanders, the tactics--any aspect of the engagement at all. He wouldn't do it. He just wouldn't. "The western world figured out how to drive the German Army out of Europe," Junger said. "They can probably figure out how to win that fight [in Afghanistan]."
Kenneth, I'd love to hear what you make of this--that is, of Junger's own views. If you have half an hour or so, would you take a look? (I'm not trying to start an argument here--apart from anything else, I won't have time this afternoon to argue back. But I'm really curious to hear if Junger himself affects your own thinking.)
Edited on Oct 10, 2010 at 12:05pmJul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Peter Robinson
Kenneth, I'd love to hear what you make of this--that is, of Junger's own views. If you have half an hour or so, would you take a look?...But I'm really curious to hear if Junger himself affects your own thinking.) · Oct 10 at 12:04pm
Peter: I should have known you were ahead of me. I did watch your interview with Junger this morning.
His argument is that Afghanistan was stable before the Soviet invasion and that he has hopes it can be restored to that state.
Alas, times have changed: since the '70's, Islamism has grown rampant in the region. Even were the people of Afghanistan to miraculously manage to establish a tenuously-stable democratic society, I doubt it could long withstand the external influences of Pakistan and Iran.
In a nation divided among tribes and warlords, I fear the only ultimate stability will be the Peace of the Taliban.
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Kenneth Peter: I did watch your interview with Junger this morning.
His argument is that Afghanistan was stable before the Soviet invasion and that he has hopes it can be restored to that state.
Alas, times have changed: since the '70's, Islamism has grown rampant in the region. Even were the people of Afghanistan to miraculously manage to establish a tenuously-stable democratic society, I doubt it could long withstand the external influences of Pakistan and Iran.
In a nation divided among tribes and warlords, I fear the only ultimate stability will be the Peace of the Taliban. · Oct 10 at 12:25pm
Fair enough--I ain't agreeing, necessarily, but you sure have a point. As Woodward makes clear in his new book, our president merely attempted to split the policy difference in Afghanistan. Now, I think, it all comes down to Petraeus. We'll see in which direction he nudges and cajoles the commander-in-chief.
Edited on Oct 10, 2010 at 12:35pmJul '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Peter Robinson
Fair enough--I ain't agreeing, necessarily, but you make a point. As Woodward makes clear in his new book, our president merely attempted to split the policy difference in Afghanistan. Now, I think, it all comes down to Petraeus. We'll see in which direction he nudges and cajoles the commander-in-chief. · Oct 10 at 12:29pm
I think it all comes down to the American people. The Left, of course, wants us out instanter. But lately, voices are arising on the Right to say that Afghanistan is not worth the cost.
Could be that once you've lost George Will and Tony Blankley, you've lost the nation.....
Jun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
It's a funny thing, but I've lost count of the former Soviet and -satellite guys I've met who jumped at the chance to enlist when they immigrated here. For the most part, they were humble, extremely appreciative, and had no time or sympathy for the typical bitching and moaning that we Soldiers have distilled into a fine elixir.
Jun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Kenneth
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
"Thank you" doesn't begin to cover it. · Oct 10 at 12:38am
But finally, I've decided that those two simple words and an extended hand say it well enough. · Oct 10 at 12:49am
Service to the people and ideals of our country is a great privilege. I'm humbled that I'm allowed to do this for a living.
There's a point during every deployment where Soldiers (at least within my coterie) start to wonder if the folks back home are out of their damn minds. Easy access to news via internet, cell phone, and satellite make keeping up with life at home quick and simple, but it makes the cultural climate there more immediate. For example - just pulling this out of the hat, mind you - it's a bit aggravating when you're standing in line at the chow hall after an 18-hour mission filled with blood and toil and have to see Harry Reid tell the world that the war you're currently engaged in is lost. That's a bad feeling halfway through a deployment.
Thankfully, there's you folks on Ricochet. God bless all of you.
Jun '10
Re: Snapshot of a Tough Neighborhood
Aaron Miller
Imagine having to clear this. Imagine having to do this because of these.
Thankfully, not everything our soldiers see is unpleasant.
Thanks again to all our soldiers and veterans! · Oct 10 at 8:01am
That looks an awful lot like Talil... ick.