Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
At the Corner, Kevin Williamson throws down the gauntlet:
set aside the legal questions for a second. The Awlaki case speaks to something even more fundamental than law: Decent nations do not permit their governments to assassinate their own citizens. I am willing to give the intelligence community, the covert-operations guys, and the military proper a pretty free hand when it comes to dealing with dispersed terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda and its affiliates. But citizenship, even when applied to a Grade-A certified rat like Awlaki, presents an important demarcation, a bright-line distinction in our politics.
If Awlaki were to be killed on a battlefield, I’d shed no tears. But ordering the premeditated, extrajudicial killing of an American citizen in Yemen or Pakistan is no different from ordering the premeditated, extrajudicial killing of an American citizen in New York or Washington or Topeka — American citizens are American citizens, wherever they go. I’m an old-fashioned limited-government guy, and I am not willing to grant Washington the power to assassinate U.S. citizens, even rotten ones. The three most powerful people in government at this moment are Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid, a fact that should give pause even to the most hawkish conservative. I would hope that other conservatives see this at least as a matter of prudence, if not a burning moral question.
In theory, I think Williamson's judgment is a slam dunk. In practice, this whole controversy seems to me to augur a not very placid conversation about who should get -- or lose -- American citizenship, and how. Here, at any rate, is a political question that touches directly on a first principle. Should the federal government be granted the power to assassinate citizens? And to answer that, don't we need to ask: Can that power, even if granted, ever be legitimate?
- Comment (34)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments :
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
I agree. But why does al-Awlaqi even have U.S. citizenship any more? He's “giving aid and comfort to the enemy,” and maybe “levying war” against the U.S. He can't be stripped of his citizenship for that? This seems a different understanding of citizenship. I would think if the administration wants him dead that badly, they could at least jump through that one legal hoop.
Jun '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
James, my inclination is to answer no and no. But would such a power be necessary if we stopped shying away from prosecuting such characters for treason? Or does the treason argument get misconstrued as another form of assassination?
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Good question. Assuming that prosecuting for treason requires a fair trial, it doesn't much look like assassination, does it?
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
This is the slippery slope from abortion (not a thread jack - it's an honest analysis).
When we start deciding certain humans are covered by the 5h and 14th amendment and certain humans are not, we get into the murky waters of making value judgments about who is worthy of life and who is not without due process (the last 3 words are key there).
Sure, it's easy to judge awlaqi as bad, but the question is: Does the government have the power to make the judgement without a hearing first?
Treason has always been tried in a courtroom. Constitutionally, only Congress may set the punishment for treason, therefore the President will find no quarter under Article 3 Section 3.
Is this an order to kill only if he doesn't surrender peacefully? That would make a difference to the analysis. Then it's self defense of the officers/soldiers who come to get him.
But a straight assassination order on a citizen raises the question of constitutional power.
Edited on Sep 29, 2010 at 12:03pmMay '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
No citizen can or should have his citizenship stripped without due process, so simply saying that he is an enemy combatant doesn't cut it. If he gets killed on the battlefield, so be it. But to target him specifically? That's a fine line that makes me nervous.
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
What really bothers me about this issue (and for the record, I could see the Bush admin doing something very similar on this), is that no one has even tried to try this in a court of law. Charge him with his crimes and treason and see how that goes -- whether or not he shows up to trial. Once convicted, we're dealing with something very different. Prior to even a fair trial though -- that's just not right.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
From what I can tell it seems that his citizenship could potentially be stripped if Al-Qaeda were a recognized state.
"Military service in foreign countries usually does not cause loss of citizenship since an intention to relinquish citizenship normally is lacking. In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish citizenship. Voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship."
http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_780.html
An attempt to strip him of citizenship makes sense. Someone will sue on weasel boy's behalf and the Courts could address the issue.
I agree with Williamson's argument, also.
May '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
I lack confidence in Obama's ability to assassinate anyone, even a Jonas Brother. He can't even credibly market an action figure. In future, all assassination powers should be invested in Pat Caddell.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
The point may be moot out in the field if he was encountered by U.S. troops.
But I will point out I agree 100% with the analysis.
Edited on Sep 29, 2010 at 12:15pmJul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
"If Awlaki were to be killed on a battlefield..."
If We were still fighting the "Global War on Terror," then the "battlefield" would be the entire planet.
May '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Tommy De Seno: This is the slippery slope from abortion (not a thread jack - it's an honest analysis).
When we start deciding certain humans are covered by the 5h and 14th amendment and certain humans are not, we get into the murky waters of making value judgments about who is worthy of life and who is not without due process (the last 3 words are key there).
Seems like a stretch to me. We already know certain humans are not covered by the 5th and 14th, e.g. enemy combatants. So the important question is whether 5 and 14 sometimes do not apply to citizens. Most supporters of abortion would say that unborn babies are not citizens, which preempts the slippery slope argument and severs the connection between the two issues.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Mark Wilson
Tommy De Seno: This is the slippery slope from abortion (not a thread jack - it's an honest analysis).
When we start deciding certain humans are covered by the 5h and 14th amendment and certain humans are not, we get into the murky waters of making value judgments about who is worthy of life and who is not without due process (the last 3 words are key there).
Seems like a stretch to me. We already know certain humans are not covered by the 5th and 14th, e.g. enemy combatants. · Sep 29 at 3:32pm
Foreigners period, no? I'm sure he meant citizens, not humans.
May '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Palaeologus
Mark Wilson
Seems like a stretch to me. We already know certain humans are not covered by the 5th and 14th, e.g. enemy combatants. · Sep 29 at 3:32pm
Foreigners period, no? I'm sure he meant citizens, not humans. · Sep 29 at 4:20pm
No, because we apply those laws to foreigners accused of crimes in the United States, depending on their immigration and diplomatic status.
I think it's beside the point anyway. I agree with Tommy's point that we are treading on dangerous ground when deciding that someone should not be afforded due process. But the reason one might refuse amendments 5 and 14 to a US citizen fighting abroad against the US have nothing to do with the reason someone would deny them to an unborn child. An abortion supporter would claim that an unborn baby is neither a human nor a citizen, so the question of due process is moot. For the US citizen terrorist, the question is about the exact nature of the citizen's relationship with the state.
Edited on Sep 29, 2010 at 5:06pmJun '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
As troubling as this idea is, the ideal of a trial, even a trial in absentia, is from an intelligence perspective compromising. Indeed, I'd wager that the only reason we are even discussing killing this traitor is that the intelligence services would rather not go to trial and might even prefer that he go free if it meant giving up intell that would endanger others.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Mark Wilson
Palaeologus
Foreigners period, no? I'm sure he meant citizens, not humans. · Sep 29 at 4:20pm
No, because we apply those laws to foreigners accused of crimes in the United States, depending on their immigration and diplomatic status. · Sep 29 at 4:56pm
You're right; I overstated. Reading the 14th I'm struck by it's target: the several states.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I have a hard time seeing how this can be applied to the feds.
Edited on Sep 29, 2010 at 5:17pmMay '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Cas, I absolutely agree, which is why I don't know of a good resolution to this problem. We can't remove this danger to the United States without endangering the United States.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
Mark Wilson
For the US citizen terrorist, the question is about the exact nature of the citizen's relationship with the state. · Sep 29 at 4:56pm
Edited on Sep 29 at 05:06 pm
Citizens are due process.
Edited on Sep 29, 2010 at 5:40pmJul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
I think Bill stated the right answer up top. Absolutely no. It is violating the most basic of American principles to allow the government to assassinate its own citizens. So what do you do with a rat bastard like this? Revoke his citizenship (with all due process). Then treat him like th enemy he is.
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
It's interesting that not one poster has rejected Williamson's argument. That really surprises me. Not one law&ordercon wants the hit?
Jul '10
Re: Should We Let Obama Assassinate American Citizens?
This is a really tough one for me. And I don't know if there is a workable solution. BUT, if there was an American citizen in the wilds of Pakistan; perhaps some criminal like Adam Gadanh who was aiding and abetting the Taliban and helping lead to the deaths of untold numbers of Americans, would/should he be spared the same treatment (drone bombings) as his non-US brethren receive? Because to be honest, drones are essentially flying assassins.
It seems almost ridiculous that on one side of the mountain, you would happily vaporize Mo bin Jihad and his whole extended, non-citizen family...while on the other side of the mountain, you pass up on killing an equally committed Taliban fighter simply because he was born in the US.