Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I once had an economics professor who had a plan for how to get Congress to stop passing all of those awful laws. When they took their oath of office, they'd be supplied with cash, drugs and prostitutes. This, he figured, would keep them too busy to muck up our country.
I thought of that when reading this New York Times column by Timothy Egan that worries about Mitt Romney's religious opposition to drinking. Now, it's probably true that what we have here is just the latest mainstream media attempt to remind voters that Romney is Mormon. What do you think of this argument?
Jimmy Carter was a teetotaler, and he earned his one-term status. Were the two connected? Can’t say. But his temperance (though he now drinks wine) was much harder on White House visitors than the White House occupant.
“You’d arrive at 6 or 6:30 p.m., and the first thing you would be reminded of, in case you needed reminding, was that he and Rosalynn had removed all the liquor from the White House,” Teddy Kennedy lamented in his memoir, “True Compass.”
Carter’s arid receptions give Romney something to consider. Would guests be more inclined to listen while he droned on about the European debt crisis, knowing that the presidential liquor cabinet held hope of a promising end to the evening?
Doctrinally, I disagree with Mormonism's ban on alcohol. But of all the things in the world to worry about with a given candidate, I can't get worked up much about whether their religion permits a glass of wine or a beer at the ballpark. But this does sort of damage Romney's chances on the whole presidential litmus test question of "Who would you rather have a beer with?"
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months?
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Aug '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Larry Koler
I'm still waiting for the Mormons here on how to interpret this and how to prevent a major misunderstanding. · 2 minutes ago
There really aren't any protocols in these matters, Larry, it's up to the individual. In your case if I would've been your partner and you wanted to buy beer for the guys I probably wouldn't have had an issue with it. If I was the owner of the company I probably would've purchased soda for them.
There may have been other issues involved for your partner. Hope this helps.
Jul '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: But this does sort of damage Romney's chances on the whole presidential litmus test question of "Who would you rather have a beer with?"
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months? · · 4 hours ago
It's gonna be one of them, so: who would you rather have on your tab?
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Palaeologus
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: But this does sort of damage Romney's chances on the whole presidential litmus test question of "Who would you rather have a beer with?"
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months? · · 4 hours ago
It's gonna be one of them, so: who would you rather have on your tab? · 5 minutes ago
Ha! I love this.
Jul '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Frozen Chosen:
Having said that, if in some alternate universe I were president of the US I would not have a problem with alcohol being served at state dinners, receptions, etc since I am functioning as a representative of the people and not as a personal host.
Spot-on answer. Than you.
Oct '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
It is a matter of principle, yes. We've loosened up on the caffeine thing--that's fine--but alcohol is not caffeine.
Oct '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Adam Freedman
Well said! I confess that I find it hard to warm up to tee-totalers, but if Mitt behaves as Tabula suggests (and not like Jimmy Crack Corn), then he's a gentleman in my books. · 8 minutes ago
I completely disagree -- on religious grounds -- with the LDS opposition to alcohol, but I think this is unfair. Mormons don't drink because their Scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants) state that it is forbidden. And if you read the passages, it would not be unreasonable to infer that it's forbidden to drink or serve. I don't know if the Romneys have taken that approach themselves, but certainly most adult Mormons I know have.
That's actually a complicated doctrine. Originally it was simple dietary advice, but as evidence grew that smoking and alcohol were bad for your health church leaders banned it altogether.
Oct '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Larry Koler
In the actual case, nothing was done nor bought -- no, not even soft drinks. My idea for a minor celebration was still-born. It was not about personal choice but our acknowledging our friends and in a way thatthey would appreciate.
I'm still waiting for the Mormons here on how to interpret this and how to prevent a major misunderstanding. · 50 minutes ago
Actually, 10 cents summarized it pretty well. There's also different social peer pressures going on--in the first case, he bowed to peer pressure (not an admirable thing, in my mind) but peer pressure was less important in the second because of the presence of strangers.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Joseph Eagar
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Adam Freedman
Well said! I confess that I find it hard to warm up to tee-totalers, but if Mitt behaves as Tabula suggests (and not like Jimmy Crack Corn), then he's a gentleman in my books. · 8 minutes ago
I completely disagree -- on religious grounds -- with the LDS opposition to alcohol, but I think this is unfair. Mormons don't drink because their Scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants) state that it is forbidden. And if you read the passages, it would not be unreasonable to infer that it's forbidden to drink or serve. I don't know if the Romneys have taken that approach themselves, but certainly most adult Mormons I know have.
That's actually a complicated doctrine. Originally it was simple dietary advice, but as evidence grew that smoking and alcohol were bad for your health church leaders banned it altogether. · 4 minutes ago
Thanks for the clarification.
Do you have a link to where that ban is written down?
Jun '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Given we've never had a Mormon president, we're in the area of speculation, so here's my speculation.
At a state dinner where Romney is representing the American people, I don't think he'll hesitate to serve alcohol, he just won't drink any himself. [I'm about as orthodox a Mormon as you'll run into, but I would not hesitate to serve alcohol if I were hosting an official state dinner in my capacity as president].
If you are invited to a private dinner in the family quarters, I doubt that alcohol would be served.
Oct '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Joseph Eagar
That's actually a complicated doctrine. Originally it was simple dietary advice, but as evidence grew that smoking and alcohol were bad for your health church leaders banned it altogether. · 4 minutes ago
Thanks for the clarification.
Do you have a link to where that ban is written down? · 1 minute ago
I'm not totally sure if it ever was. There is a generic doctrine that harming your body is a sin, and I think the alcohol/smoking ban derives from that. I think this was one of those doctrines that arose culturally first, but was "kept" by church leaders (as opposed to stamping it out as doctrinally unsupported, which they've done for a number of other issues).
Dec '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie
The point I am making is I see
1. Should elected officials imbibe?
equal to
2. Should elected officials eat pork?
or
3. Should elected officials eat fried chicken and watermelon?
or
4. Should elected officials work on the Sabbath?
Would you write a post with the title being 2, 3 or 4?
Do you see a difference between 1, 2, 3, or 4?
I know you would not want to offend any group. Forgive me if I gave that impression.
Does any one else see my point or am I all alone on this one?
Edited on April 25, 2012 at 10:21pmAug '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I don't think you can draw exact equivalences. Public drinking is an issue that literally every culture and religion on the planet touches on. Eating pork and working on the Sabbath are issues that matter only to sub-sets, and #3 is a very narrow, regional reference.
Any question of the form "Should politicians do X publicly?" is a tricky one, and can really only be argued in the context of that politician's constituency or job requirements. If X is an issue a large number of their constituency have a strong opinion on, then it's worth discussing. Niche behaviors of X probably are more nit-picking than interesting questions.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
10 cents: Mollie
The point I am making is I see
1. Should elected officials imbibe?
equal to
2. Should elected officials eat pork?
or
3. Should elected officials eat fried chicken and watermelon?
or
4. Should elected officials work on the Sabbath?
Would you write a post with the title being2, 3or4?
Do you see a difference between1, 2, 3, or 4?
I know you would not want to offend any group. Forgive me if I gave that impression.
Does any one else see my point or am I all alone on this one?· 28 minutes ago
Edited 14 minutes ago
Ah, I see what you mean, at least. I was just trying to write a provocative headline, since obviously I can think of any number of reasons why an elected official *wouldn't*.
And now I'm curious which previous president of ours took office with the most interesting dietary restrictions, if any ...
Aug '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Joseph Eagar
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Mormons don't drink because their Scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants) state that it is forbidden. And if you read the passages, it would not be unreasonable to infer that it's forbidden to drink or serve. I don't know if the Romneys have taken that approach themselves, but certainly most adult Mormons I know have.
That's actually a complicated doctrine. Originally it was simple dietary advice, but as evidence grew that smoking and alcohol were bad for your health church leaders banned it altogether. · 4 minutes ago
Thanks for the clarification.
Do you have a link to where that ban is written down? · 1 hour ago
You can be a Mormon and drink alcohol or smoke, you just can't hold a temple recommend, which is the higher standard that most active members follow. (a temple recommend is required for access to the temple and to serve in most lay positions).
I should also point out that our beliefs in these matters are not dictated by science but by revelation through the Prophet.
Jul '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months?
"Who would you rather have handling your finances?" Cause he will.
Even if I couldn't have booze, I'd rather have a drink with Romney than Obama. He seems less likely to lecture me about what's wrong with me.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Wylee Coyote
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months?
"Who would you rather have handling your finances?" Cause he will.
Even if I couldn't have booze, I'd rather have a drink with Romney than Obama. He seems less likely to lecture me about what's wrong with me. · 6 minutes ago
I never got why the answer to that question was so important. Although I did think that Rick Perry would be the guy I'd most like to have as a neighbor. Of course, I didn't support him either.
Mar '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
And now I'm curious which previous president of ours took office with the most interesting dietary restrictions, if any ... · 27 minutes ago
Washington had lost all but one of his teeth before taking office which I presume was quite restrictive.
Apr '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Duane's kind words are justified in this instance; I've got a pretty good idea how Mitt deals with this, because Mitt has repeatedly bought me beers. Also, coke, and also coffee; the campaign that told people repeatedly (lots of people asked) that it was the campaign, on Mitt's instructions, buying booze/ caffeine. There was also wine, twice, but that might have been a supporter being generous, rather than the campaign.
Not in a small, intimate setting (I've never had a small, intimate meeting with Mitt), but for 40-200 people in various campaign only and open to the public "parties" or "celebrations". Mormon friendly beverages were also offered.
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 12:01amApr '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
One of my absolute favorite memories of 2008 was partying with a bunch of young Mormons who had kindly invited me to share their accommodation (at the home of a super generous couple). It was Nevada's victory party, and was an evening that contained a high proportion of my Mormon stereotype experiences.
After delaying going out to the strip for a math competition that had overrun, we went out, armed with a map that allowed us to navigate parts of the strip while avoiding parts which displayed pornography. The map was only semi-successful, but I didn't get the impression that it was a problem; people were gobsmacked, but by the awesome wonder that is Vegas. If conquering the Salt Lake and demonstrating man's dominion over the earth is a big deal to you, religiously, Vegas is a neat place for prayer.
We had a great time with various street entertainers, purchasing balloon animal hats, singing with Elvis, singing Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue", and perhaps a little over-eagerly proselytizing to people who asked us questions (we were mostly in campaign gear).
Continued.
Apr '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
It was a great, well organized trip. The reason I mention it, though, is because we'd had it drummed into our heads so often that this was not a Mormon campaign, and that Mitt, if President, would need the prayers of all Americans (a quote from one of his best speeches that got repeated quite often). Partly this was because the campaign center was very heavily religious, containing considerable numbers of Protestant pastors and otherwise keen Christians along with more Mormons than I saw in any other state (NH, NV, FL, CA, and VA).
This meant that there was a lot of curiosity about Mormons, and a little discomfort. Kevin Romney, who was "President" of the "Stake", their sort of Archbishop equivalent, was very firm in telling people that here he was "Mr." Romney, as his usual title turned too many heads and made people uncomfortable.
As such, they'd been given very pro-alcohol briefs, and a few kids became concerned on the strip that drinking was "what you do" on the Strip, and that they'd make the campaign "look weird" by being sober. It turned out pretending to be drunk was not convincing or helpful.