Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I once had an economics professor who had a plan for how to get Congress to stop passing all of those awful laws. When they took their oath of office, they'd be supplied with cash, drugs and prostitutes. This, he figured, would keep them too busy to muck up our country.
I thought of that when reading this New York Times column by Timothy Egan that worries about Mitt Romney's religious opposition to drinking. Now, it's probably true that what we have here is just the latest mainstream media attempt to remind voters that Romney is Mormon. What do you think of this argument?
Jimmy Carter was a teetotaler, and he earned his one-term status. Were the two connected? Can’t say. But his temperance (though he now drinks wine) was much harder on White House visitors than the White House occupant.
“You’d arrive at 6 or 6:30 p.m., and the first thing you would be reminded of, in case you needed reminding, was that he and Rosalynn had removed all the liquor from the White House,” Teddy Kennedy lamented in his memoir, “True Compass.”
Carter’s arid receptions give Romney something to consider. Would guests be more inclined to listen while he droned on about the European debt crisis, knowing that the presidential liquor cabinet held hope of a promising end to the evening?
Doctrinally, I disagree with Mormonism's ban on alcohol. But of all the things in the world to worry about with a given candidate, I can't get worked up much about whether their religion permits a glass of wine or a beer at the ballpark. But this does sort of damage Romney's chances on the whole presidential litmus test question of "Who would you rather have a beer with?"
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months?
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Comments:
May '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
This is the key question- James of England, your research is needed here, since we can't ask the late Dean Barnett. How did they handle this stuff on Massachusetts? I am willing to bet that Romney has made a lot of Bain business deals in his prior life, sitting in bars with other people.
I hate booze myself- I have immature tastes and think beer on the palate is like what stale wild boar urine must resemble- but I regularly ply my wife with wine, and play designated driver, etc. Of course, in social situations, everyone wonders if I am Mormon, or, alternatively, am a recovering alcoholic.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Adam Freedman
flownover:
Bush had the good manners to treat his guests according to their desires, while passing on drinking himself. That is called good manners, Carter was not acquainted with good manners and was reputedly, as was his wife, a very severe taskmaster with the domesctic staff in the White House. · 23 minutes ago
Well said! I confess that I find it hard to warm up to tee-totalers, but if Mitt behaves as Tabula suggests (and not like Jimmy Crack Corn), then he's a gentleman in my books. · 8 minutes ago
I completely disagree -- on religious grounds -- with the LDS opposition to alcohol, but I think this is unfair. Mormons don't drink because their Scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants) state that it is forbidden. And if you read the passages, it would not be unreasonable to infer that it's forbidden to drink or serve. I don't know if the Romneys have taken that approach themselves, but certainly most adult Mormons I know have.
Dec '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Duane Oyen
... am Mormon, or, alternatively, am a recovering alcoholic. · 5 minutes ago
"Never Refuse Wine. It is an odd but universally held opinion that anyone who doesn't drink must be an alcoholic." -- P.J. O'Rourke Modern Manners
Mar '12
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
When and if we have our first Muslim presidential candidate, I'll be sure to check back in with Mr. Egan's concerns on Presidents and alcohol. I'm sure he'll still be concerned. Right?
Aug '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
There was a famous management training program at my previous employer, a large international bank. On Wednesday of the first week, the trainees were taken out to a high-end bar on the company tab. The next day, trainees were dropped from the program for a couple of reasons:
Obviously this training program did not survive past the 1960's. But I can't say I disagree with the rationales behind it. The traits they were looking for are still important in any situation where socializing is part of your job.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I once had an economics professor who had a plan for how to get Congress to stop passing all of those awful laws. When they took their oath of office, they'd be supplied with cash, drugs and prostitutes. This, he figured, would keep them too busy to muck up our country.
Alas, Congressmen, by all accounts, have easy access to "cash, drugs, prostitutes," and it does us no good.
May '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Molly " Mormon doctrine prohibits alcohol on principle." That doesn't stop Marriott from pushing booze 24x7.
Jun '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I had an odd experience. A business partner of mine was Mormon. When all the partners went to restaurants together for yearly board meetings, alcohol was paid for by the company. This partner would often be the one who paid the bill with his company credit card.
Now get this slight but telling scenario: on the very last day of a large (for us) construction project improving our facility, I suggested that we supply beer for the construction workers as a thank you -- and to engender a short period after work where they might stick around and shoot the breeze with all of us. After all, we got to know these guys pretty well and liked them very much.
My suggestion was greeted with horror and anger by this partner. I offered to go get the beer myself (he and I were the only non-drinkers in the company) and there was absolutely no way that he was going to agree. He got very angry when pressed on this.
What's going on here? Are there some scenarios that Mitt would get puritanical on this subject and others not so much?
Mormons: Help us out on the protocols here.
Jan '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I'm kind of surprised by this post. We don't know that much about Romney and his general thoughts on alcohol or caffeine (do we?). It depends on if he has a "hard reading" or "soft reading" of his religious tenets. I've known Jewish people that eat pork, yet on the other end of the spectrum there are ultraorthodox Jewish people. (Same concept with other religions). There's not a lot of point debating what Romney will do when we don't know where he stands.
Jul '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
I'm betting Teddy carried a flask that contained five or more silver bullets. Showed up with a heat on as well.
Dec '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Let's show some toleration for non-drinkers. You guys are about as Pro-Choice as a NOW meeting. In my book Romney can legally choose to imbibe or not. Why make such a big deal out of this? Mollie if you made the same post about pork and kosher food you would be a religious bigot. This is about as sensitive to a group as asking a black president, "How often will you eat/serve fry chicken and watermelon?"
Edited on April 25, 2012 at 7:25pmOct '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Wasn't it the policy of one of the Greek city states that their politicians consider a matter while drinking and then later sober to get a well-rounded view of an issue?
Mar '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
How should that question be rebranded for the coming months?
Obama or Romney - Who would you rather have a bore with?
Dec '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
I once had an economics professor who had a plan for how to get Congress to stop passing all of those awful laws. When they took their oath of office, they'd be supplied with cash, drugs and prostitutes. This, he figured, would keep them too busy to muck up our country.
The late Speaker of the California Assembly, Jesse Unruh, famously advised his fellow Assembly members about their interactions with lobbyists, "If you can't take their money, drink their liquor, and [enjoy] their women, and then vote agaist 'em, you don't belong here."
Jan '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Here we are, trying to figure out whether Mitt Romney will serve alcohol at the White House.
Doesn't this prove how useless the primaries and debates were?
Dec '11
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Larry Koler,
The story you told about your partner missed the subtle difference between the two experiences.
1. When everyone goes to restaurant they order what they want and then somebody pays. There is free choice by individuals.
2. Buying beer for everyone is one person deciding what everyone should have. This is a kind and friendly gesture and no harm is meant, because everyone likes to relax with a brew. But ... some don't drink like your partner and feel more comfortable showing kindness in other ways. He might have gone for "Lets have a small party with beverages." And have the beverages be a mixture of beer and soft drinks. Everyone can choose and the non-drinker does not feel uncomfortable. This is similar to the restaurant case.
Jun '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
10 cents: Larry Koler,
The story you told about your partner missed the subtle difference between the two experiences.
1. When everyone goes to restaurant they order what they want and then somebody pays. There is free choice by individuals.
2. Buying beer for everyone is one person deciding what everyone should have. This is a kind and friendly gesture and no harm is meant, because everyone likes to relax with a brew. But ... some don't drink like your partner and feel more comfortable showing kindness in other ways. He might have gone for "Lets have a small party with beverages." And have the beverages be a mixture of beer and soft drinks. Everyone can choose and the non-drinker does not feel uncomfortable. This is similar to the restaurant case.
In the actual case, nothing was done nor bought -- no, not even soft drinks. My idea for a minor celebration was still-born. It was not about personal choice but our acknowledging our friends and in a way that they would appreciate.
I'm still waiting for the Mormons here on how to interpret this and how to prevent a major misunderstanding.
Aug '10
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Perhaps my experience as a Mormon will shed some light on the issue (or perhaps it will just confuse everyone even more!)
I own a small business with about 20 employees. Every year we have a Christmas dinner at a nice restaurant where I pick up the tab. Being an active Mormon, I have no problem with my employees drinking alcohol but I do not feel comfortable purchasing it for them so my policy is that I will pay for the dinner and any non-alcoholic beverages but if they want to drink it's on their dime.
Having said that, if in some alternate universe I were president of the US I would not have a problem with alcohol being served at state dinners, receptions, etc since I am functioning as a representative of the people and not as a personal host.
I suspect Romney will take a similar view when in office.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
10 cents: Let's show some toleration for non-drinkers. You guys are about as Pro-Choice as a NOW meeting. In my book Romney can legally choose to imbibe or not. Why make such a big deal out of this? Mollie if you made the same post about pork and kosher food you would be a religious bigot. This is about as sensitive to a group as asking a black president, "How often will you eat/serve fry chicken and watermelon?" · 1 hour ago
Edited 1 hour ago
Um, what in the world are you talking about? For one thing, I've defended Romney against the charge that it would be ungentlemanly to abstain from serving alcohol, so your charge of bigotry is wrong.
And to compare someone's religious tenets proscribing food or drink with mocking people based on stereotypes people have regarding supposed affinities particular groups have is ridiculous.
Mormons specifically don't permit drink. I'm related to hundreds of Mormons by marriage and have partied with them a fair amount. This is not bigoted to point out. Is it bigoted to say that Jews who keep Kosher don't eat pork? Of course not.
Re: Should Elected Officials Imbibe?
Frozen Chosen: Perhaps my experience as a Mormon will shed some light on the issue (or perhaps it will just confuse everyone even more!)
I own a small business with about 20 employees. Every year we have a Christmas dinner at a nice restaurant where I pick up the tab. Being an active Mormon, I have no problem with my employees drinking alcohol but I do not feel comfortable purchasing it for them so my policy is that I will pay for the dinner and any non-alcoholic beverages but if they want to drink it's on their dime.
Having said that, if in some alternate universe I were president of the US I would not have a problem with alcohol being served at state dinners, receptions, etc since I am functioning as a representative of the people and not as a personal host.
I suspect Romney will take a similar view when in office.
I just asked a couple of Mormon friends about this and they gave me almost the identical answer. They wouldn't provide/subsidize alcohol at personal or business functions but they could easily be persuaded to do it if acting in some public capacity.