Sarah-noia
My WSJ colleague James Taranto published a provocative piece yesterday trying to explain the hatred toward Sarah Palin. Well worth a read. When I spoke to him, he thought that a lot of it is abortion, and the fact that she lives her convictions there (carrying Trig to term even after she knew he had Down).
I think that abortion has a part, but is not the whole story (read James' whole story for some of the other factors). My reasoning is that there are any number of Republican and conservative women who are pro-choice and yet seem to suffer from being considered not quite legitimate. A parallel example might be Clarence Thomas, whom people declare not really being black. To me that is because the left tends to define identity for a "woman," "gay," "black," etc. in highly politicized terms. (Claire, if you are reading, weren't there people who didn't consider Mrs. T a "woman" in this sense -- not that Mrs. T would care).
Point is, James has posted a piece well worth reading. And I'd like to hear the reactions. Again, this isn't about whether Gov. Palin should be the nominee, or even if you agree with her. It's about the nature of the liberal hatred for her. Anyone?
- Comment (119)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (1)
Comments :
Dec '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor Friedersdorf:
When part of your shtick is to separate the country into "real America" and "fake America," to insult "the left" and "liberals" at every opportunity, and to mock "coastal elites," is it any surprise that folks who live in blue states and lean left tend to dislike her a lot?
The "the left" and "liberals" insult and mock "conservatives" reflexively and routinely ..."they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them", etc., and so on and so forth. Examples abound. Is it any surprise that folks who live in red states and lean right tend to dislike them a lot.
Many "libertarians" also routinely insult and mock "conservatives", depending on the definition of "conservative".
So what? Seems like normal run-of-the-mill political behavior.
Re: Sarah-noia
Paul, Interesting observation on the obverse issue, the willingness by feminists to overlook Bill Clinton's shabby dealings with women. Mollie, I kind of agree with you that this cuts across both sexes. Conor, I'm not talking about unfavorable. i'm talking about hatred, where people say incredible things they would not feel free to say about anyone else (she was behind Tucson killings, her baby really isn't hers, her 14-year-old daughter should be "knocked up" by a Yankee player, etc.)
Let me be clear on next sentence: I'm not saying that Sarah Palin is Ronald Reagan. But the hatred against her is similar, in that people who do hate her feel that all they need do is utter the name and people should laugh.
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Nickolas
The "the left" and "liberals" insult and mock "conservatives" reflexively and routinely ..."they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them", etc., and so on and so forth. Examples abound. Is it any surprise that folks who live in red states and lean right tend to dislike them a lot.
No, it isn't a surprise. And Obama, the guy who said that stuff, has World Net Daily doubting his citizenship, Dinesh D'Souza insisting that he's motivated by 1950s style Kenyan anti-colonialism, Rush Limbaugh arguing that he's cool with white kids being beat up by black kids on buses, and Andy McCarthy insisting that he is allied with Islamist radicals in a "grand jihad" against America.
So is Sarah Palin unique in having absurd theories about her bandied about? No, I don't think so.
It's easy to always respond, "But the other side does it too!" to excuse bad behavior." Well, consider me on neither side. I try to call out theories that seem absurd to me when I see them.
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor,
Your boss is literally investigating her uterus and you ask if there's anything particularly noteworthy about the freakout over Palin? Really?
Jul '10
Re: Sarah-noia
I think it is a splendid example - perhaps the ultimate example - of the thing we call the "Culture War". Sarah Palin is everything the Elites are not. She is a strong, vibrant, successful woman who exhibits none of the characteristics that define the Ruling Class. She doesn't buy into any of the premises of urban sophisticate liberalism. In fact she defies them. And yet she succeeds! How is this possible? If she is what American women can be, how does the liberal/feminist narrative of the past 50 years hold up?
Abortion may be the most obvious single component of this difference, but it is not the cause. That thing we call the "Elite" cultural view is a big old tangled web of assumptions, prejudices, lifestyle preferences and cultural tastes. And Sarah Palin is the contrary to every one of their beliefs. She is the "other", and as such cannot be tolerated. Which is exactly why those of us who deeply believe in the virtues of pre-60s American culture must stand by her side.
Dec '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor Friedersdorf
Nickolas
The "the left" and "liberals" insult and mock "conservatives" reflexively and routinely ..."they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them", etc., and so on and so forth. Examples abound. Is it any surprise that folks who live in red states and lean right tend to dislike them a lot.
No, it isn't a surprise. And Obama, the guy who said that stuff, has World Net Daily doubting his citizenship, Dinesh D'Souza insisting that he's motivated by 1950s style Kenyan anti-colonialism, Rush Limbaugh arguing that he's cool with white kids being beat up by black kids on buses, and Andy McCarthy insisting that he is allied with Islamist radicals in a "grand jihad" against America.
So is Sarah Palin unique in having absurd theories about her bandied about? No, I don't think so.
Without getting into point counter-point quibbling about the quantity and quality of the "abused theories", Palin does not currently hold an elected office and has not announced she is running for one.
In that context alone, yes, the Palinoia phenomenon is unique in my experience.
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Mollie Hemingway: Conor,
Your boss is literally investigating her uterus and you ask if there's anything particularly noteworthy about the freakout over Palin? Really? · Jan 20 at 6:20pm
Mollie,
In public and private, I've disagreed with my boss about Trig Palin, as has my colleague, Patrick Appel. (Though I don't think literally means what you think it does.) To my boss' credit, he aired these dissents on The Daily Dish itself . And that is the way it should be. (If only National Review would let me write an article rebutting McCarthy's work!) And I'll certainly agree that Andrew Sullivan is more alarmed by Sarah Palin than any other politician I've mentioned.
As you may have noticed, he is but one man, and it seems obviously wrongheaded to cite his opinion as evidence of a broad trend in American politics. If you assigned an undergraduate a poli-sci paper on the subject, "Is Sarah Palin uniquely loathed among American politicians," and his only argument was, "Andrew Sullivan is extremely bothered by her," you'd fail him.
Jul '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Help! I've fallen into a Sarah Palin thread and I can't get up....
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Nickolas
Without getting into point counter-point quibbling about the quantity and quality of the "abused theories", Palin does not currently hold an elected office and has not announced she is running for one.
In that context alone, yes, the Palinoia phenomenon is unique in my experience. · Jan 20 at 6:32pm
It isn't as if she was a target prior to running for vice-president. And she is widely expected to run for president (whether or not she does). Even besides her electoral aspirations, she is a nationally famous political commentator who deliberately courts controversy. And like other people in that game – Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore – some of her critics say absurd, over the top stuff.
As soon as Palin doesn't win the presidency in 2012, the whole phenomenon will grow far less powerful. And I suspect that Palin knows it, and wants to keep up the ambiguity as long as possible.
Re: Sarah-noia
Okay, we can leave Andrew Sullivan's uterine inspections out of it and simply look at the previous week, when a sizable population of the media and pundit class accused her of being an accomplice to murder. The failure to find even the most tangential link between her and the alleged murderer did not deter many of these figures day after day.
Do you see anything special there?
Dec '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor Friedersdorf
Nickolas
Without getting into point counter-point quibbling about the quantity and quality of the "abused theories", Palin does not currently hold an elected office and has not announced she is running for one.
In that context alone, yes, the Palinoia phenomenon is unique in my experience.
It isn't as if she was a target prior to running for vice-president. And she is widely expected to run for president (whether or not she does). Even besides her electoral aspirations, she is a nationally famous political commentator who deliberately courts controversy. And like other people in that game – Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore – some of her critics say absurd, over the top stuff.
But you were making a direct comparison between the "absurd theories" directed at Obama, a highly controversial elected President of over two years, to those directed at Palin, in an effort to discount the latter and dismiss them as not unusual.
Hardly apples and apples.
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Mollie Hemingway: Okay, we can leave Andrew Sullivan's uterine inspections out of it and simply look at the previous week, when a sizable population of the media and pundit class accused her of being an accomplice to murder. The failure to find even the most tangential link between her and the alleged murderer did not deter many of these figures day after day.
Do you see anything special there? · Jan 20 at 6:43pm
Mollie,
Let me put it this way. I blogged about how silly it was to argue that Sarah Palin's campaign map played a role in the Tuscon shooting.
Was that accusation more or less absurd than these accusations:
– Bill and Hillary Clinton arranged the murder of Vince Foster.
– Barack Obama is allied with our Islamist enemy in a grand jihad against America.
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Nickolas
But you were making a direct comparison between the "absurd theories" directed at Obama, a highly controversial elected President of over two years, to those directed at Palin, in an effort to discount the latter and dismiss them as not unusual.
Hardly apples and apples. · Jan 20 at 6:47pm
It's hard to make a direct comparison. But I'd say Sarah Palin right now is most analogous to lightning rod opposition figures during the Bush Administration – some mix of Michael Moore and Al Gore and Cindy Sheehan. (I'm not comparing her to these people except to say that like them, she is a staunch critic of the people in power, not an elected official herself, and the object of extreme vitriol, some of it absurd.)
Sep '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Mollie Hemingway: Conor,
Your boss is literally investigating her uterus and you ask if there's anything particularly noteworthy about the freakout over Palin? Really? · Jan 20 at 6:20pm
I think the boss wants to boldly go where no man has gone before.
Nov '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor Friedersdorf
Well, consider me on neither side. I try to call out theories that seem absurd to me when I see them.
God save us all from those who equivocate.
And I hate self-styled neutrals. Pick a side and fight it out, damn it.
The cool, ironic detachment schtick is getting old, Conor. Even Letterman has become tiresome.
Edited on Jan 20, 2011 at 7:00pmJun '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Yawn.
Re: Sarah-noia
Conor Friedersdorf
Mollie,
Let me put it this way. I blogged about how silly it was to argue that Sarah Palin's campaign map played a role in the Tuscon shooting.
Was that accusation more or less absurd than these accusations:
– Bill and Hillary Clinton arranged the murder of Vince Foster.
– Barack Obama is allied with our Islamist enemy in a grand jihad against America. · Jan 20 at 6:51pm
You'll note that however wrong those last two ideas are, they are at least related to reality. Vince Foster worked for Bill Clinton and killed himself. Barack Obama is Commander in Chief and doesn't fight our enemies as some of his critics would like. Using their own words and actions, there are at least ties here. The TucsonPalinphobia? Thin air. A different class altogether, right? Also worth noting that no mainstream paper or New York Times oped writer advanced your examples -- so also different. Right? Beginning to see the difference?
Jul '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Lady Kurobara
Pick a side and fight it out, damn it.. · Jan 20 at 6:58pm
Edited on Jan 20 at 07:00 pm
Right. I say, "If You don't know where You stand, then Yer standing in the way."
May '10
Re: Sarah-noia
Lady Kurobara
God save us all from those who equivocate.
And I hate self-styled neutrals. Pick a side and fight it out, damn it.
The cool, ironic detachment schtick is getting old, Conor. Even Letterman has become tiresome. · Jan 20 at 6:58pm
Edited on Jan 20 at 07:00 pm
Okay, here's my side, Lady Kurobara: Americans who forcefully argue for what they believe without regard for whether it advantages or disadvantages their ideological allies; folks who reject rhetoric that is indefensible on the merits; people who reject an "ends justify the means" attitude in public discourse.
My more discerning critics complain about my earnestness. Unlike you, they recognize that there is nothing detached about my writing, and that I don't engage in shtick. I assure you that I am fighting it out on a daily basis, and I'm sorry to say that I fear you're on the other side.
Re: Sarah-noia
Mollie Hemingway
Conor Friedersdorf
Mollie,
...
Was that accusation more or less absurd than these accusations:
– Bill and Hillary Clinton arranged the murder of Vince Foster.
– Barack Obama is allied with our Islamist enemy in a grand jihad against America. ·
... they are at least related to reality. Vince Foster worked for Bill Clinton and killed himself. Barack Obama is Commander in Chief and doesn't fight our enemies as some of his critics would like. Using their own words and actions, there are at least ties here. The TucsonPalinphobia? Thin air. A different class altogether, right? Also worth noting that no mainstream paper or New York Times oped writer advanced your examples -- so also different. Right? Beginning to see the difference?
Mollie, you are right on all your comments here, just chose to highlight this one point. I'm coming late to this party, but McGurn and Mollie are correct. The hatred against Palin, someone who is essentially powerless, is bizarre. The hatred against Bush was similarly knee-jerk and mouth-foaming, but the guy was POTUS.