Santorum Talks Satan
Rick Santorum is a good man, but that doesn't mean he'd be a good candidate, much less a good president -- or even a member in good standing here at Ricochet.
Consider the following quotes from Drudge and the Spectator, pasted after relevant clauses from the Code of Conduct:
1. Anything that makes the Ricochet Community look like a bunch of radical fruitcakes: "Satan has his sights on the United States of America!"
2. Personal attacks on an individual, group, or class: "We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."
3. Imagine you're a guest at a dinner party with a group of seemingly nice people you don't know... how would you handle yourself?: "If you were Satan, who would you attack in this day and age. There is no one else to go after other than the United States..."
The nominee of the Republican Party?
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Comments:
Jun '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
BKelley14:
I think plenty of members of Protestant mainstream church members would consider Romney if gas prices are high enough, if oil skyrockets, if the unemployment rate starts going back up. They won't consider Santorum. · 3 minutes ago
I'm not so confident. The comparatively few members these churches have left have stayed because they are ideologically committed to liberalism. Any strategy to a GOP victory depending on the most liberal churches in America (which are in rapid decline anyway) has already failed.
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Granted, some may be less likely to vote for Santorum than Romney, but there are others who will be more likely to vote for Santorum.
It all goes back to the bold colors vs. pale pastels. What wins? Pale pastels, because they don't scare off the liberals (who probably wouldn't vote for a Republican anyways) and the wishy-washy middle? Or bold colors, that don't turn off the base but rather, fire them up?
No one knows for sure. Every election is different. I can't categorically state which will win. But again, historical precedent is on my side.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 9:51pmJan '12
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Christopher Esget
The churches we're talking about are extremely liberal (and shrinking by the week). They embrace abortion and homosexuality and a host of other leftist causes. Do you really think they're going to vote for any Republican candidate? · 42 minutes ago
Edited 41 minutes ago
Churches aren't monoliths. There are a lot of reasons to join/stay with a congregation, including family and community ties. Members of those denigrated mainline churches may ignore the pulpit and vote their political beliefs or economic interests instead. That's less likely if they feel a part of their identity is being attacked, correctly or incorrectly.
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
I've admitted as much-- one group may be more or less likely to vote for a candidate, but often they'll be offset by another group swinging toward the candidate.
The categorical statement of "fact" that group X will not vote for candidate A just doesn't fly-- that's the main point. The second point is that you can win with less support in group X if you have more support in group Y. You can't please everyone; usually, those who try too hard end up pleasing no one.
Remember, Santorum didn't intentionally set out to alienate these people. He was saying their institutions (remember what he said Satan was attacking?) have been compromised. And he said so in a private gathering. It's Santorum's enemies that are now airing this to alienate certain voter groups from him.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 10:33pmMar '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Polls are meaningless this far out. Look at the numbers for Mike Dukakis vs. George H.W. Bush at this point in 1988. He was killing Bush and Democrats thought they had it in the bag.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
He has many disadvantages. One big one -- his lack of charisma. To those looking at him dispassionately he often sounds whiney, preachy, petulant, even. Not enough people will be excited to vote for that.
Jun '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Locke On
Churches aren't monoliths. There are a lot of reasons to join/stay with a congregation, including family and community ties. Members of those denigrated mainline churches may ignore the pulpit and vote their political beliefs or economic interests instead. That's less likely if they feel a part of their identity is being attacked, correctly or incorrectly. · 2 hours ago
See Comment #181
It is true that churches aren't monoliths. But the specific churches we are speaking about are increasingly monolithic, and rapidly shrinking. Do you really think convincing marginalized members in churches like ECUSA, ELCA, PCUSA, and the UCC is the key (or even a key) to a winning GOP electoral strategy?
Feb '12
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
No presidential GOP candidate has what you claim Santorum lacks.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Polls are meaningless this far out.
I think polling has come a long way from 1988. And so far, in the primaries they have been very accurate.
Aug '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
I used to think so, too, but I don't anymore. Either winning some states really agrees with him and he's perked up, or I was being blinded by my own prejudices before.
Anyhow, Santorum strikes me as the most charismatic guy left -- and an inspiring speaker. I think he's better than any other remaining candidate at conveying genuine affection for ordinary people. I say this as someone who's not sold on his candidacy, or anyone else's, right now.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
No presidential GOP candidate has what you claim Santorum lacks.
I don't claim it. I see it. He often sounds petulant and angry. Herman Cain had tremendous charisma. He's gone. Michelle Bachmann had a good amount. She's gone.
But, you are right, Newt, Rick and Mitt are without.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Do you really think convincing marginalized members in churches like ECUSA, ELCA, PCUSA, and the UCC is the key (or even a key) to a winning GOP electoral strategy?
I think talking about the huge economic problems we have is the key. Unfortunately, because of his propensity for preaching, Rick's economic plans get overshadowed, and will get overshadowed by the relentless mocking of the MSM if he is the candidate. They will be merciless.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Anyhow, Santorum strikes me as the most charismatic guy left -- and an inspiring speaker.
I haven't seen this, at least not in the debates. I don't know any one in my conservative circle who is excited by him. Just saying.
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Chris Deleon
You think? · 12 hours ago
I think that the etiquette on this site has dropped a bit as of late. @Chris Deleon, I am so very sorry that I lack the time to drill down 24 hours back into the members feed to see your post on this topic, then provide the customary hat tip.
Reading through much of this, and other articles on Ricochet lately, (I've been a member since Mark Steyn pointed me here and the site was only a Podcast) I am losing the desire to participate in conversation if only to be met with snarky comments, outright rudeness as was the case just a few days ago, or to read endless!! comments that seem to restate arguments.
Edited on February 23, 2012 at 1:53amDec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
So you think it's better for a candidate to hide his religious beliefs and pretend to be either ashamed of them or disinterested in them?
I note that it wasn't Santorum who dragged his 2008 speech about Satan's designs into the 2012 campaign. If Romney's supporters are willing to do that, do you suppose Obama's supporters will hesitate for a split-second to drag all of Romney's past statements and actions regarding his faith into the general election campaign?
If Romney is our candidate, you will see him skewered like a butterfly on a pin -- and I've seen Santorum do that to Romney in the debates. Santorum knows better than Romney how to defend himself against those types of attacks, which is a better basis to bet on than the dubious proposition that our candidate will somehow be immune from being attacked.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Stuart, I never said Romney wouldn't be immune. I'm saying Santorum's very conservative views and "preachiness" will make him unacceptable to independents in the general election.
Jun '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
BKelley14: Do you really think convincing marginalized members in churches like ECUSA, ELCA, PCUSA, and the UCC is the key (or even a key) to a winning GOP electoral strategy?
I think talking about the huge economic problems we have is the key. Unfortunately, because of his propensity for preaching, Rick's economic plans get overshadowed, and will get overshadowed by the relentless mocking of the MSM if he is the candidate. They will be merciless. · 2 hours ago
I've seen the 2008 clip that you're concerned about. Could you point me to some contemporary examples of this "propensity for preaching"?
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Listen to Victor Davis Hanson's assessment of RS on this week's podcast.
Feb '12
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
BKelley14:No presidential GOP candidate has what you claim Santorum lacks.
I don't claim it. Isee it. He often sounds petulant and angry. Herman Cain had tremendous charisma. He's gone. Michelle Bachmann had a good amount. She's gone.
But, you are right, Newt, Rick and Mitt are without. · 6 hours ago
Interesting. I also thought Michelle Bachmann had a good amount, but I didn't find many who agreed with me. I thought she got a bit of a raw deal, although to some extent she brought it on herself by bickering with Pawlenty and then becoming desperate in her attacks on Perry.
In any case, my mom agrees with you about Santorum, so you can't be all wrong. The fellow doesn't have much charm, it's true, but I like that he is exactly as he appears. Honesty is not always the most effective virtue politically, but it can give a man a certain credibility and respect. Compared to Romney's unctuousness, Paul's garrulousness, and Gingrich's opportunism, however, Santorum's honesty might serve our cause better.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Santorum's honesty might serve our cause better
What is "our cause"?