Santorum Talks Satan
Rick Santorum is a good man, but that doesn't mean he'd be a good candidate, much less a good president -- or even a member in good standing here at Ricochet.
Consider the following quotes from Drudge and the Spectator, pasted after relevant clauses from the Code of Conduct:
1. Anything that makes the Ricochet Community look like a bunch of radical fruitcakes: "Satan has his sights on the United States of America!"
2. Personal attacks on an individual, group, or class: "We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."
3. Imagine you're a guest at a dinner party with a group of seemingly nice people you don't know... how would you handle yourself?: "If you were Satan, who would you attack in this day and age. There is no one else to go after other than the United States..."
The nominee of the Republican Party?
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Comments:
Apr '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Astonishing: Tristan, this line of attack against Santorum carelessly supports an unpleasant precedent for an exploration of Romney's theology:
Question by Obnoxious Debate Moderator: The Latter Day Saints theology says X about Y. Do you, Mitt Romney, approve that [fruitcake] dogma of your church or do you reject it?
Please, let's not go there, neither against Santorum nor against Romney. ·
He hasn't gotten that in debates, but he gets it in town halls and interviews regularly. He refuses to answer it.
I don't have a problem with Santorum believing this stuff. I believe it, too. I do think it's a shame that he's choosing to devote valuable time to discussing it.
One of the main reasons he lost in 2006 is because he didn't just hold an unpopular position on Iraq (again, the correct position), but he chose to emphasize it. There'll be time enough to talk about Satan as President, or as a private citizen. Unless he has a policy response, though, he's distracting from the issues talking about it now. And I kinda hope he doesn't have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts.
Sep '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
James Of England
There'll be time enough to talk about Satan as President, or as a private citizen.
Whoa, James, watch your phrasing. A Lefty might read this accuse you of calling Obama Satan.
Mar '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
James Of England
He hasn't gotten that in debates, but he gets it in town halls and interviews regularly. He refuses to answer it.
I don't have a problem with Santorum believing this stuff. I believe it, too. I do think it's a shame that he's choosing to devote valuable time to discussing it.
One of the main reasons he lost in 2006 is because he didn't just hold an unpopular position on Iraq (again, the correct position), but he chose to emphasize it. There'll be time enough to talk about Satan as President, or as a private citizen. Unless he has a policy response, though, he's distracting from the issues talking about it now. And I kinda hope he doesn't have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts. · 5 minutes ago
You appear to forget that this thread is based on comments Santorum made as a private citizen, before a private audience.
Aug '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
I do find his phraseology here a touch bizarre. I believe that in a fit of rhetorical ornamentation Santorum simply went overboard in trying to express what a juicy target Satan must find us.
Anyhow, if I take his quote more literally than I think it was meant, it's not referencing Satan that troubles me, but the aggrandizement of any nation -- even one as great as the United States -- as being so great a nation that Satan wouldn't go after anyone else. That's getting a bit close to statolatry for my comfort.
Still, I'm not wigged out yet. It's normal for politicians' bizarre quotes from their past to surface from time to time.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 2:01amMay '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
James Of England: I don't have a problem with Santorum believing this stuff. I believe it, too. I do think it's a shame that he's choosing to devote valuable time to discussing it.
... Unless he has a policy response, though, he's distracting from the issues talking about it now. And I kinda hope he doesn't have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts.
Here's the problem. He's not saying this kind of stuff now, or "devoting valuable time to it" right now. This was in 2008, in case you missed it.
It's been "drudged" up by Romney surrogates, most likely, and fed to Drudge and others, to get Santorum off message. The more people give credence to this, the more you play into the false narrative.
Of course he's not going to have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts. That anyone thinks or would suggest this shows how far we have bought into the caricature of the crazy religious nut.
Sep '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
James Of England
I don't have a problem with Santorum believing this stuff. I believe it, too. I do think it's a shame that he's choosing to devote valuable time to discussing it.He hasn't gotten that in debates, but he gets it in town halls and interviews regularly. He refuses to answer it.
James, I completely agree with you. It's one thing to be held to a double standard, like the overwrought reaction to Santorum's use the word theology to describe the President's beliefs and Jay Carney using same word to describe Republicans (“Most of my adult life, the Republican theology has been tax cuts for everyone are the highest priority.”) Santorum can be open about he faith not showcase it but let's please feature more discussion about the size and power of the federal government, reducing spending, repealing Obamacare, Iran, etc.
Sep '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Chris Deleon
James Of England: I don't have a problem with Santorum believing this stuff. I believe it, too. I do think it's a shame that he's choosing to devote valuable time to discussing it.
... Unless he has a policy response, though, he's distracting from the issues talking about it now. And I kinda hope he doesn't have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts.
Here's the problem. He'snotsaying this kind of stuff now, or "devoting valuable time to it" right now. This was in 2008, in case you missed it.
It's been "drudged" up by Romney surrogates, most likely, and fed to Drudge and others, to get Santorum off message. The more people give credence to this, the more you play into the false narrative.
Of course he's not going to have an explicit policy on defense against the satanic arts. That anyone thinks or would suggest this shows how far we have bought into the caricature of the crazy religious nut. · 4 minutes ago
Yes, you are correct. Those specific quotes were a couple years old. Who cares what he said then.
Dec '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Anyhow, if I take his quote more literally than I think it was meant, it's not the reference to Satan that troubles me, but the aggrandizement of any nation -- even one as great as the United States -- as being so great a nation that Satan won't go after anyone else. That's getting a bit close to statolatry for my comfort.
I do believe that for most of our history, America has been the Indispensible Nation. America has provided a global engine of growth, a global armory and a global example of freedom, without which the rest of the world would have fallen into chaos so deeply it would never have crawled back out.
I remember what Gordon Sinclair said about us almost 40 years ago.
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Ronaldus Maximus
Yes, you are correct. Those specific quotes were a couple years old. Who cares what he said then. · 1 minute ago
Not saying we shouldn't care, but that a) they are getting more attention than they deserve, and b) people are actually saying that he's "devoting valuable time" to them-- as if it was something he said just yesterday.
Apr '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
katievs
Tristan Abbey
Douglas
I want my President to tell the truth, and call a spade a spade, instead of dancing around the issue with politically correct language. That's one of the reasons why this country is sliding to hell. Good on Santorum for saying this stuff. I like him more every day. · 5 minutes ago
Santorum says a lot of things that sound good -- but has he done anything besides read and write?
I've met Santorum. I think he's a good guy. But that's not the only qualification for a presidential nominee. · 2 minutes ago
O for heaven sakes. He was two term senator, rated among the most conservative, even though he was from a bluish state. He authored welfare reform, and he took unpopular stands because he believed in them, even though it cost him politically. He wouldn't be where he is today if he weren't tough and smart, capable and talented. ·
Most of the big conservative successes lately have come from Articles II and III. Arguably the two biggest conservative legislative successes were the welfare reform act and the partial birth abortion ban act. Both were Santorum's.
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Someone earlier on the thread said that I would "get a thrill" from Santorum's being nominated. Setting aside the condescension, let me say that it's true, at least in a way.
I would get "a thrill of hope" that we're not as far gone as I frequently fear. That an openly religious man can triumph over the vitriol of the left and the sneering of the establishment to win the votes of a majority means that there's more moral stuff left in us than generally meets the eye.
It happens, too, that I believe that if he can so triumph, he will likewise have a real shot at winning in the general. A better shot, even, than Romney.
And that if he wins the Presidency, America will have a shot at pulling back from the brink and turning herself around.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 2:33amMay '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
James Of England
Most of the big conservative successes lately have come from Articles II and III. Arguably the two biggest conservative legislative successes were the welfare reform act and the partial birth abortion ban act. Both were Santorum's. · 9 minutes ago
With statements like these, am I talking to the same James of England as before?
Do you know katievs also (tentatively) supported Romney last year? She said she shook his hand in New Hampshire (I think) sometime last fall, and was very impressed with him personally.
Maybe you are coming around. (?) I can hope...
May '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Chris Deleon
James Of England
Most of the big conservative successes lately have come from Articles II and III. Arguably the two biggest conservative legislative successes were the welfare reform act and the partial birth abortion ban act. Both were Santorum's. · 9 minutes ago
With statements like these, am I talking to the same James of England as before?
Do you know katievs also (tentatively) supported Romney last year? She said she shook his hand in New Hampshire (I think) sometime last fall, and was very impressed with him personally.
Maybe you are coming around. (?) I can hope... · 14 minutes ago
I shook hands with Santorum in the Fall too. And now these are the two top contenders. Coincidence? Perhaps.
James has had lots of kind things to say about Santorum all along, Chris.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 3:00amRe: Santorum Talks Satan
Coming to this thread late. Here's what I want to know: has anyone yet asked President Obama whether he really believes there are 57 states? And while we're talking religion, can we get the president to acknowledge that sometime during his decades in the pews he at least heard a rumor that, perhaps, Jeremiah Wright harbored the odd anti- American sentiment?
Sep '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
If any Catholic journalists are reading this far in the thread, they may want to do a bit of sleuthing on how large the charismatic movement is at Ave Maria University, and whether this influenced the tone and temper of the remarks being made in 2008. I'm not insinuating anything, merely making an observation.
As you were.
Jun '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Fr. Barron comments on Why Exorcism Films Still Fascinate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEelMlVToE
Jan '12
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
I hope some well-placed Republican strategist will read your comment. You may have just indicated the what kind of acid might be needed to neutralize the base. (Or is it the other way around?)
Jun '11
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Tristan Abbey
Fact of the matter is that his views will be perceived and portrayed as supremely bizarre to most national voters and, I would wager, most Republican primary voters.
I would also wager that most religious mainline Protestants do not believe that they are not Christians. · 6 hours ago
Thank God the other major candidate doesn't believe anything crazy like, you know, Lucifer is Jesus' spirit brother, or belong to a religion whose founder died in a gun battle after destroying a printing press. I mean, could any voter possibly accept that?
EDIT: I was trying to sarcastically make the point that you can say something that sounds crazy about most religions, and it simply will not do to make the argument that Santorum will sound nuttier to the public than Romney. It was unwise, and I should have realized that before I posted it. I'd remove this comment, but it's already been quoted twice on p.7, so I'll leave it here for the record, but please accept my apology for the offense.
Edited on February 22, 2012 at 4:43amAug '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
Stuart Creque
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
...but the aggrandizement of any nation -- even one as great as the United States -- as being so great a nation that Satan won't go after anyone else. That's getting a bit close to statolatry for my comfort.
I do believe that for most of our history, America has been the Indispensible Nation. America has provided a global engine of growth, a global armory and a global example of freedom, without which the rest of the world would have fallen into chaos so deeply it would never have crawled back out.
I pretty much agree.
However, being the Indispensable Nation here on earth doesn't have the same cosmic, transcendent status as being Satan's Only Enemy (not that I think Santorum meant his remark to come across that way). We shouldn't mistake any state -- no matter how great -- for Satan's Only Enemy. It's incompatible with a spirit of limited government, for one thing.
But as I said, I don't think Santorum meant anything this extreme, so it's sort of a moot point.
Aug '10
Re: Santorum Talks Satan
That's an intriguing insin... observation, Pseud.