Rot From Our Own Side
Paul Krugman is receiving the criticism he deserves here, but Ron Paul delivers his own nuggets about September 11. Here's an especially ridiculous tidbit from today's post on his website:
Though it is hard for many to believe, honest studies show that the real motivation behind the 9/11 attacks, and the vast majority of other instances of suicide terrorism, is not that our enemies are bothered by our way of life, neither is it our religion or our wealth – rather it is primarily occupation. If you were to imagine for a moment how you would feel if another country forcibly occupied the United States, had military bases and armed soldiers present in our hometown, you might begin to understand why foreign occupation upsets people so much.
Friends, why do we put up with this?
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Comments:
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
As someone else said the other day, when he's right he's really, really right, but when he's wrong he's CRAZY!
Aug '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
"Well, that about wraps it up for Ron Paul."
May '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Disprove it if you think its untrue.
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Much of Ron Paul's foreign policy vision is based on the Unicorn Theory of geopolitics.
May '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Mohammed Atta - we'll start there.
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
"Honest studies" as if it's (a) scientific and (b) suppressed by blinded fools.
Oh, it's true. Osama bin Laden told us exactly why he attacked on 9/11. It wasn't any of the reasons that people point to. No, it was because US soldiers were in Saudi Arabia.
Because...the cowardly Saudis begged us to be there.
Begged.
But I guess that he couldn't be bothered actually attacking Riyadh.
Aug '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Matthew Gilley
Mohammed Atta - we'll start there. · Sep 11 at 6:11pm
Mohammed Atta was a Saudi, responding to Osama bin Laden's call to banish infidel American troops from the home of Islam. As such, he proves Congressman Paul's point. In spades.
As the great philosopher Jack Nicholson once said, some people can't handle the truth.
May '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Atta was Egyptian.
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
But if we're going to go back in time for our casus belli, why don't all Christians attack Istanbul?
Aug '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
I stand corrected. But it doesn't matter: to Islamists, the Western concept of nationalism doesn't matter: Western occupation of the former lands of the Caliphate - and especially Saudi Arabia - is a mortal offense. And, of course, the majority of the hijackers were Saudis.
So let us conjecture what would happen if some portion of the United States was occupied by foreign troops: would the people of unoccupied Kansas react indifferently when Texas or California was under the heel of foreigners?
May '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Tom: I apologize for the brief response, but I'm tapping this out on a mobile and will be off to the land of nod soon. A few things: 1. I guess I didn't realize that all Islamist (especially those of the Iranian stripe) were so nostalgic about Saudi land. 2. Regarding our presence in KSA, I'll refer you to AmishDude's earlier comments. 3. This conversation is a good illustration of why I have serious problems with Ron Paul: it's elastic and hypothetical; in other words, untethered from reality. (Did I mess up the preposition? Should it be "to"?)
May '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Matthew Gilley
Mohammed Atta - we'll start there.
Conclusive!
Oct '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Ron Paul in an interesting phenomena in this arena. That being said.
There was a speech from the leader of Iran not long ago, stating that the West would be conquered without firing a single shot. That being through immigration and changing the demographics. Europe seems to be learning some of these lessons.
There is a distasteful topic to most, yet deserves consideration.
Bin Ladens intent was to set into motion events that would undermine the West and let it consume itself from within. Simple. Plant the cancer cells and stand back.
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Tom Paine
...
So let us conjecture what would happen if some portion of the United States was occupied by foreign troops: would the people of unoccupied Kansas react indifferently when Texas or California was under the heel of foreigners? · Sep 11 at 7:04pm
What nonsense. The U.S. has never "occupied" Saudi Arabia. In 1990, the U.S. established military bases in Saudi Arabia to defend the country from invasion by Saddam Hussein. Operations Dessert Shield, to protect Saudi Arabia from invasion, and Dessert Storm, the war to liberate Kuwait from occupation by Iraq, were staged and launched from Saudi Arabia with the complete cooperation and participation of the Saudi government.
The U.S. military has never had it's "heel" on any aspect Saudi society or culture, just the opposite, every effort was made to make the presence of U.S. bases and military invisible to Saudi society.
Aug '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
jetstream
Tom Paine
...
So let us conjecture what would happen if some portion of the United States was occupied by foreign troops: would the people of unoccupied Kansas react indifferently when Texas or California was under the heel of foreigners? · Sep 11 at 7:04pm
What nonsense. The U.S. has never "occupied" Saudi Arabia. In 1990, the U.S. established military bases in Saudi Arabia to defend the country from invasion by Saddam Hussein. Operations Dessert Shield, to protect Saudi Arabia from invasion, and Dessert Storm, the war to liberate Kuwait from occupation by Iraq, were staged and launched from Saudi Arabia with the complete cooperation and participation of the Saudi government.
The U.S. military has never had it's "heel" on any aspect Saudi society or culture, just the opposite, every effort was made to make the presence of U.S. bases and military invisible to Saudi society. · Sep 11 at 7:55pm
Your concept of occupation and Muslims' concept of occupation aren't the same thing. Consider, if you would, that no non-Muslims are allowed in Mecca.
Before you go calling "nonsense", at least understand the facts.
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Tom Paine
jetstream
What nonsense. The U.S. has never "occupied" Saudi Arabia. In 1990, the U.S. established military bases in Saudi Arabia to defend the country from invasion by Saddam Hussein. Operations Dessert Shield, to protect Saudi Arabia from invasion, and Dessert Storm, the war to liberate Kuwait from occupation by Iraq, were staged and launched from Saudi Arabia with the complete cooperation and participation of the Saudi government.
The U.S. military has never had it's "heel" on any aspect Saudi society or culture, just the opposite, every effort was made to make the presence of U.S. bases and military invisible to Saudi society. · Sep 11 at 7:55pm
Your concept of occupation and Muslims' concept of occupation aren't the same thing. Consider, if you would, that no non-Muslims are allowed in Mecca.
Before you go calling "nonsense", at least understand the facts. · Sep 11 at 8:05pm
Oh, since the U.S. was invited by the Saudi government, the Saudi government must not "understand the facts". And that, of course, is nonsense!
Aug '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
jetstream
Tom Paine
Your concept of occupation and Muslims' concept of occupation aren't the same thing. Consider, if you would, that no non-Muslims are allowed in Mecca.
Before you go calling "nonsense", at least understand the facts. · Sep 11 at 8:05pm
Oh, since the U.S. was invited by the Saudi government, the Saudi government must not "understand the facts". And that, of course, is nonsense! · Sep 11 at 8:09pm
Obviously, you know very little about Saudi Arabia and the government's uneasy rule over its subjects. The Saudi family relies upon the US and our arms to maintain their subjection of the populace - and the populace is well aware of that fact.
Apr '11
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Ron Paul is bang on right about this. It is a distasteful and almost taboo statement. For some reason a whole lot of folks cannot separate motivation for action and the results of those actions in their minds. It is the same lack of mental agility that leads liberals down the easy road of throwing money at problems with no follow-up. So yes, we were attacked and it is unforgivable and it was also due to our national policies, indirectly. What is so distasteful about recognizing this? Are we or are we not a world power with presence around the globe that isn't always appreciated? Even countries that "love" us hate us too. Ever heard of Cermis?
Dec '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
Tom Paine
jetstream
Tom Paine
Your concept of occupation and Muslims' concept of occupation aren't the same thing. Consider, if you would, that no non-Muslims are allowed in Mecca.
Before you go calling "nonsense", at least understand the facts. · Sep 11 at 8:05pm
Oh, since the U.S. was invited by the Saudi government, the Saudi government must not "understand the facts". And that, of course, is nonsense! · Sep 11 at 8:09pm
Obviously, you know very little about Saudi Arabia and the government's uneasy rule over its subjects. The Saudi family relies upon the US and our arms to maintain their subjection of the populace - and the populace is well aware of that fact. · Sep 11 at 8:17pm
Of course, and in 1990, "the populace" was excited about the prospect of invasion by Iraq and were eager to experience the good life under the delicate rule of Saddam Hussein. But instead the imperialist U.S. occupied Saudi Arabia and prevented "the populace" from realizing their dreams under the caring guidance of Saddam Hussein.
The "populace" undoubtedly wanted to enjoy all of advantages that Kuwait enjoyed under the loving care of Saddam Hussein.
Oct '10
Re: Rot From Our Own Side
RE, Tom Paine,
The Saudi government has little regard for anything that does not preserve the Kingdom. Et Al, The extended Royal families. The general native population was just bribed so as not to revolt. Odd that.
All in all, the Saudis do have a vested interest in Mid East unrest, save they do have some economic controls and are unwilling to get anything on their shoes in the conflict.
Somebody needs to get serious and define the difference between Colonialism and occupation in this dialog, Militray or otherwise. Just pick something that works...