Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Jonathan Gruber was one of the architects of Obamacare. He also was one of the architects of Romneycare. He's worried about the Supreme Court deciding the future of the American health care system, particularly as it relates to the individual mandate.
Without the individual mandate, Obamacare will be much messier and more of a financial wreck, he says. Although he's so committed to this administration of health care insurance that he still thinks a mandate-less bill is better than any alternative.
Gruber said he understands the political motivation for Republicans to be trying to dismantle the bill. "Look, if this succeeds, then Obama becomes F.D.R. This is the most important social policy accomplishment since the 1960s. And if this succeeds, this could be the kind of benefit to the Democratic Party that Social Security was. So if I was the Republicans, I'd be screaming and kicking and scratching to kill it too, on purely political grounds," he said.
He's also upset with Democratic ambivalence about the bill so he's, um, written a graphic novel to help sell the ideas of Obamacare. Farrar, Strauss & Giroux will publish it in December. And they say publishing is dead.
He credited Mitt Romney for not totally disavowing the Massachusetts bill during his presidential campaign, but said Romney's attempt to distinguish between Obama's bill and his own is disingenuous. "The problem is there is no way to say that," Gruber said. "Because they're the same [big time expletive] bill. He just can't have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it's the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he's just lying. The only big difference is he didn't have to pay for his. Because the federal government paid for it. Where at the federal level, we have to pay for it, so we have to raise taxes."
Oh dear.
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May '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
In Mitt's defense, the state vs. federal constitutional distinction is one big difference.
Also, gold plating of the post-Romney Romneycare and Obamacare is a big reason why the economics went wrong.
Mitt might be a hero in MA if there hadn't been the feeding frenzy to gold plate the minimum required policy, causing many existing policies to be noncompliant and sending costs through the roof..
Of course, Mitt's first failure was in not seeing that special interest politics was inevitably going to gold plate the requirements.
Edited on Nov 17, 2011 at 6:33amJan '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
So Mollie, who do you think should be the GOP candidate?
Sep '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
No, no, no! Mitt is a brilliant businessman who is a conservative! This kind of thing is a hatchet job designed to steer unthinking voters towards candidates who are not inevitable! Hang your head in shame, Mollie. You've fallen for the lies and slander of people who are bigoted against nuanced flipfloppery.
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Mitch Daniels? Paul Ryan?
Of the available folks, I might be reconsidering Jon Huntsman. Am I crazy?
Aug '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
That's the biggest difference, though, right? ...And maybe the only big difference?
ctlaw:
Also, gold plating of the post-Romney Romneycare and Obamacare is a big reason why the economics went wrong.
Mitt might be a hero in MA if there hadn't been the feeding frenzy to gold plate the minimum required policy, causing many existing policies to be noncompliant and sending costs through the roof.
Of course, Mitt's first failure was in not seeing that special interest politics was inevitably going to gold plate the requirements.
Pretty much.
Supposing Mitt is the Republican nominee, I dread all that could go wrong with him being the one to oppose ObamaCare. Until recently, I'd totally written Mitt off as a primary candidate. Now, in light of his competition... I've felt forced to reconsider.
Maybe we are doomed, a little.
Aug '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Mitch Daniels? Paul Ryan?
Of the available folks, I might be reconsidering Jon Huntsman. Am I crazy?
You're not crazy. Not really. It's the situation that's crazy.
Apr '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Read Ann Coulter's column today. This should put this fear of yours to rest.
Jan '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Well, I don't know that you're crazy. But if you absolutely can't stand Mitt Romney and feel the need to consistently insult him and trash his qualifications, I find you considering Huntsman, who is Mitt Romney on steroids, a bit bizarre.
May '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Mitch Daniels? Paul Ryan?
Of the available folks, I might be reconsidering Jon Huntsman. Am I crazy? · Nov 17 at 6:51am
Huntsman gives off that overtanned, well dressed/groomed, Charlie Crist form-over-substance vibe. Remember Billy Crystal's "Fernando" character: "To look good is better than to feel good!" He's not one to go to war with a media-political establishment that can define his image.
May '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Graphic novel? Isn't that the euphemism for comic book? How appropriate.
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
I read the column just now, and it simplify intensified my fears, reminding me why I have long entertained grave doubts about Newt Gingrich. It did nothing, however, to reassure me about Mitt Romney.
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
BThompson
Well, I don't know that you're crazy. But if you absolutely can't stand Mitt Romney and feel the need to consistently insult him and trash his qualifications, I find you considering Huntsman, who is Mitt Romney on steroids, a bit bizarre. · Nov 17 at 7:41am
Well, to be fair, I simply quoted the architect of both Romneycare and Obamacare saying that Mitt Romney was lying when he claimed the plans were different. If you want to defend Romney on that score, have at it. But we can't pretend that things like this aren't out there. It's not exactly my fault that Romney's signature achievement was to create the blueprint for Obamacare.
But yes, I find my interest in Huntsman as bizarre as you do. I'll quote a hardcore conservative neighbor who said "If we're going to have a moderate anyway, I'd like an authentic one."
Oct '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
I think Gruber doesn't have a clue about the political motivations of Republicans trying to repeal Obamacare.
We don't GAD who gets credit for something that's good for America. If Obamacare were a net positive for America, we'd be on-board. We oppose Obamacare because it's going to destroy the world's best health care system in the world (redundancy intended) and in the process it's going to change forever in a negative way the relationship between our government and its citizens.
Oh, and we oppose it because we think it's unconstitutional. But that's not even on Libs' radar screens. "The Constitution? What's that??"
Nov '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
dittoheadadt: I think Gruber doesn't have a clue about the political motivations of Republicans trying to repeal Obamacare.
We don't GAD who gets credit for something that's good for America. If Obamacare were a net positive for America, we'd be on-board. We oppose Obamacare because it's going to destroy the world's best health care system in the world (redundancy intended) and in the process it's going to change forever in a negative way the relationship between our government and its citizens.
Sorry, but as a provider in the world's best health care system, I'm here to tell you that it's already been destroyed. From a large perspective, the destruction results from the introduction of Medicare in the 1960s, although it took a while for the rot to really set in. Obamacare only finishes the job.
Oct '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Lucy Pevensie
dittoheadadt: I think Gruber doesn't have a clue about the political motivations of Republicans trying to repeal Obamacare.
We don't GAD who gets credit for something that's good for America. If Obamacare were a net positive for America, we'd be on-board. We oppose Obamacare because it's going to destroy the world's best health care system in the world (redundancy intended) and in the process it's going to change forever in a negative way the relationship between our government and its citizens.
Sorry, but as a provider in the world's best health care system, I'm here to tell you that it's already been destroyed.
But Lucy, in your opening sentence you acknowledge that it's "...the world's best health care system." ;-)
Maybe you just forgot to use the scare quotes!
All seriousness aside, if it's not still the best in the world, then to which country do the world's wealthy go when they need medical care, if not to America? Where are most drugs invented, where are most medical advances discovered, if not in America? Like democracy it's awful, but better than all alternatives.
Nov '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
dittoheadadt
Lucy Pevensie
Sorry, but as a provider in the world's best health care system, I'm here to tell you that it's already been destroyed.
All seriousness aside, if it's not still the best in the world, then to which country do the world's wealthy go when they need medical care, if not to America? Where are most drugs invented, where are most medical advances discovered, if not in America?
Yes, there are still real strengths in research here, although if you check out the US medical literature, at least in my field, more and more articles published in American journals are written in Europe or Asia. It's only a matter of time until the foreign journals overtake ours as the most important journals.
However, it's the delivery that's more messed up. If you're paying cash, like a Saudi, you may still get some really good health care. Be sure to pay for extra nursing, however; the nurses who come with your outrageously inflated hospital bill will be spending too much time filling out paperwork to actually take care of you.
Aug '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Romneycare was constitutional under the MA state constitution - let's pray the Supremes find that Obamacare (or at least the individual mandate) is not under the federal constitution.
Mitt said he would work to repeal Obamacare whether it is found constitutional or not - I believe him.
Dec '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
Lucy, I've sent exactly one thank you card in my entire life. I sent it to the nurses who cared for me after my appendectomy. Yes, we have the best healthcare system on earth and it is that way because it is infused with America. The technology ain't half bad either, but it is the people that makes the real difference.
The mandate debate basically comes down to one question: is the free rider problem (which the mandate hopes to solve) detrimental enough to society to warrant government coercion? On a national level the the answer is obvious. From an originalist point of view, even if free riders did constitute a problem worthy of government's attention there is no remedy as the constitution does not grant such powers to the national government. On a state level it becomes murkier.
Oct '11
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
BThompson
Mitt Romney on steroids
I believe he just left Sacramento. Just joshin', not a hater!
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
But yes, I find my interest in Huntsman as bizarre as you do. I'll quote a hardcore conservative neighbor who said "If we're going to have a moderate anyway, I'd like an authentic one."
I didn't take a close look at Huntsman until he came up as my match on reason.com's GOP Online Presidential Dating Game. I thought about posting a link in the member feed, but didn't want to defend against the inevitable libertarian bashing or be responsible for any strokes resulting from someone being matched with Ron Paul. His post-'67 (Safe as Milk was good) Beefheart love is always a little odd.
Edited on Nov 17, 2011 at 11:36amDec '10
Re: Romneycare Designer Says It's Same As Obamacare
If Ron Paul said anything truly enlightening during this whole campaign is was his response to being asked if "we should just let people die in the streets." His response: "That never happened," even when he was practicing medicine before the advent of Medicare. The free rider problem has always existed. Many doctors have always helped those in dire need of care regardless of their ability to pay. The difference was that it was religious institutions that served as the financial backing when a patient couldn't afford care.
This does get more complicated with the expense of modern technology and pharmaceuticals, but I don't think it's beyond solving on a local level, government excluded.