Roles and Norms
The guys and I were talking at work about what time we get up and comparing morning routines. One of my coworkers chimed in with "I get up when my wife tells me breakfast is ready." This is the same guy who is surprised every day at lunch because his wife packs that for him, too. The expected inappropriate comments were made, everyone laughed, but I started thinking. This particular man can grill steaks, but is probably lost in the kitchen. When asked if his kids could cook (because his wife was out of town) the reply was, "They would starve to death otherwise." He has a life that is more akin to black and white TV sitcoms than to everyday American life in 2012.
At one point in American history this would have been considered normal. The 1950s ideal is the life social conservatives are accused of pining for. However, I don't see that as being the norm for most social conservatives I know. My in-laws are perhaps as stereotypical as it gets, but even they broke wildly from the "Leave it to Beaver" mold. My mother-in-law was in a rock band and held many other jobs (like the singing birthday card gig) to help ends meet when my wife was growing up. Most of the women I know who are homemakers (and that is very few these days) don't follow precisely along the set path that is iconic in American life. The role norms and ideals have changed drastically. I'm not sure what to think of it. Where those times better? If so, were they less good for some?
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Re: Roles and Norms
The King Prawn
Just sayin'. · 24 minutes ago
Oh my goodness. I just sent this to my husband with deep (tongue in cheek) apologies for never doing ANYTHING on this list. In fact, I do the complete opposite. I feel a little bad, truthfully, at how I'd fail at being a 50s mum/wife.
But still, this one seemed a little ... extreme: "Don't complain if he's late for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through that day."
!
May '10
Re: Roles and Norms
Agreed. I grew up in a traditional family (even though my mom had more formal education than my dad) and have known many traditional families throughout my life. The traditional model does not have the woman doing everything around the house and the husband being doted on like a sultan.
The traditional model revolves around multiple children with both parents performing chores most of every day. The traditional model exemplifies the Christian view that life is a constant struggle, though perforated with beauty and joy, and our truest rewards lie beyond.
It is true that the different sexes traditionally have had different domains (home/work, kitchen/garage, etc). But it's like any job: a job description is not the limit of one's responsibilities, but merely the focus for which one will be held accountable.
Re: Roles and Norms
Ursula Hennessey
But still, this one seemed a little ... extreme: "Don't complain if he's late for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through that day."
! · 10 minutes ago
If only I had a time machine to get back there....
Mar '11
Re: Roles and Norms
Yeah, well, gimme some trouble then.
Dec '10
Re: Roles and Norms
My wife and I try to maintain somewhat traditional roles especially concerning the kids. She chose to stay at home because, in her words, "I'll be damned if I'm gonna let the state and strangers raise my girls." Even so, my affinity for the kitchen and her natural skillset for neglecting housework make being a cookie cutter couple extremely challenging. No one brings me my slippers and my pipe when I get home, but it's sure not for a lack of trying on my part.
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
Over our 32 years of marriage, my husband and I have made the choices that have suited us best. At the beginning we both worked. Then I became a SAHM until school age arrived. (No, it was not a luxury; it was a sacrifice gladly made.) Then we both worked again. We became home-educators for 10 years and both taught and tended the househould while running a software engineering company from home. We became empty-nesters, then nomads when my husband's work took us from project to project, moving every 6-24 months all around the country, for 14 years and my primary task was getting us from here to there, and freelancing.
Now we're settled down again in a cottage we named Nomads' Rest, and I remain as keeper of home and hearth. This is our choice. It reflects what is most important to us at this time in our life.
Choose what is best for you and your spouse and your family.
May '10
Re: Roles and Norms
I get up every morning and get my wife's coffee, then the puppy and I bring it upstairs wake her up gently.
Dec '10
Re: Roles and Norms
My wife describes me as a "Herd of Pooh" (another nick name) when I'm about my business in the morning.
Jan '12
Re: Roles and Norms
Especially in a country whose citizens are said to prize individualism.
There was more variety of work-role distribution in the 1950s than either sentimental television shows or surly feminist propagandists would have you believe. After both my brother and I were old enough to go to school, Mom worked part time as a retail clerk, but it was she who always made the chocolate cake. For the most part, Dad was a disaster in the kitchen, but he would often serve Mom breakfast in bed on a Saturday morning. It was a kind of ritual between them.
Edited on May 3, 2012 at 12:56amApr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
Have many thoughts on this, but will just offer one. If you go by people's Facebook posts, you'll get the impression that stay at home moms are way happier than working people. People expect you to complain about your job, but when it comes to your family you're more likely to share the positives, such as cute things your children do, or wonderful recipes you made. This doesn't really mean, though, that stay-at-home-moms are the luckiest people on earth. Complaining about the people you love (and what a burden they are on you) causes hurt feelings; complaining about your co-workers and the irritations of professional life is almost a social ritual. But families face plenty of hardships these days, make no mistake.
May '10
Re: Roles and Norms
Couples have to do what works for them. We bring different gifts, abilities, and skill sets to our marriages. When my wife and I were married we decided, based on interests and abilities that, If it is inside the walls she has responsibility, if it is outside the walls I have responsibility. In practice it means that she does the house cleaning and I do the yard work. When a decision has to be made about something -- how to arrange the furniture, what color to paint the living room, what kind of plant to put in the garden, how to landscape the yard -- the one with general responsibility has the final say-so, but the other gets to opine and advocate. In the past, work schedules meant that she usually cooked. But now we share cooking and clean up. She still does most of the house cleaning, but I often help out especially if preparing for a social event. I handle all the "family business" -- bills, finances, investments, etc. -- but again, we always consult on anything beyond the routine. (This is made easy because neither my wife nor I like to shop.) It's a balance that works for us.
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
Joseph Stenko, it is enormously difficult for me to reveal that I would be so happy to be a stay at home mum. It would be a hornet's nest from career women. I agree with what you said about how first career women were stigmatized and now stay at home mums. I have been both and my mother in law was critical whatever I was doing. My husband is a sweetie, we have been together for 30 years, but he is not great on making money consistently. Lumpy income is his way. If all husbands were like the fifties stereotype, stable income providers who come home and read the paper quietly, perhaps the roles would have stuck, but my husband is the opposite. Too many cold dinners never eaten. Here is where borak's comment that "Michelle did not have the luxury to stay at home" (as raised by Katilena). That is the penultimate emotional dig at Romney's wife, Ann, and to get the career women's vote because we would prefer to be at home mums with "at home" husbands. Obama is pulling up women's emotions of envy, but the great unspoken envy. S
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
This. (Also the rest, but if I kept that there'd be no room for my blather.)
Anybody here bake cookies? The cut out ones, with lots of sharp corners?
Bake them close together, with deep dough, and they are defined by the cookie they run into.
I think the "roles" are very important- the problems come in when they're dehumanized. My husband has a "real" job, I take care of the house. Teaching myself to sew...but I also do all the maintenance that doesn't take being large and fit. I do all the cooking... unless he wants to do something special for the girls, or make scallops in white wine or something. (Me, I have to look up that I don't mean "scallions.") Colors need coordinating? His job!
He even changed our daughter's diaper before I did, and I've hunted far more than he.
The traditional roles are good. Just gotta be real, instead of kabuki style.
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
So's mine, but I figured it was a generational/locational thing-- from all the apartments and post-80s houses I looked at for renting, in two different cities, almost nobody cooks. (which is why we finally settled on what appears to be a turn of the century ranch cabin that was expanded on in at least three different decades. Sure, the windows are my grandma's age, but you can have more than one person in the kitchen and even have multiple pans going at the same time.)
Eat out, take out or microwave.
My husband is one of a handful of the people in his entire building that brownbags it almost every day, even though most are married and he's the "kid" of the bunch.
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
The King Prawn
Just sayin'. · May 2 at 10:13am
I'd see about getting some scans from Cosmo about a happy home life, but 1) I'm too bloody cheap to buy those, and 2) they'd probably violate the COC on basic decency measures.
That said, Snopes isn't sure the famous "Good Wife's Guide" isn't a hoax.
(I'd research it, but I'm trying to find where the quote that the lunch story reminded me of is from... I think it's Terry Pratchett that had guys comparing packed lunches, and the guy who not only didn't pack his own but had one that was just to his liking was teased about if there was a slice of wedding cake in there as well. Guess which is more fun. *grin*)
Edited on May 3, 2012 at 10:49pmDec '11
Re: Roles and Norms
Foxfier
The King Prawn
Just sayin'. · May 2 at 10:13am
I'd see about getting some scans from Cosmo about a happy home life, but 1) I'm too bloody cheap to buy those, and 2) they'd probably violate the COC on basic decency measures.
That said, Snopes isn't sure the famous "Good Wife's Guide" isn't a hoax.
(I'd research it, but I'm trying to find where the quote that the lunch story reminded me of is from... I think it's Terry Pratchett that had guys comparing packed lunches, and the guy who not only didn't pack his own but had one that was just to his liking was teased about if there was a slice of wedding cake in there as well. Guess which is more fun. *grin*) · 21 minutes ago
Edited 18 minutes ago
There is a reason Terry Pratchett was knighted.
Apr '12
Re: Roles and Norms
Post on bads, goods, and mandatory goods.