Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I read this piece by Roger Scruton with some discomfort. I've been thinking about these issues--what it really does to us to conduct so many of our relationships through the Internet--for some time. (I find the topic so interesting that I even wrote a novel about it.)
He's certainly not the first to make some of these observations--nor was I--but he puts them well:
When attention is fixed on the other as mediated by the screen, however, there is a marked shift in emphasis. For a start, I have my finger on the button; at any moment I can turn the image off, or click to arrive at some new encounter. The other is free in his own space, but he is not really free in my space, over which I am the ultimate arbiter. I am not risking myself in the friendship to nearly the same extent as I risk myself when I meet the other face to face. Of course, the other may so grip my attention with his messages, images, and requests that I stay glued to the screen. Nevertheless, it is ultimately a screen that I am glued to, and not the face that I see in it. All interaction with the other is at a distance, and whether I am affected by it becomes to some extent a matter of my own choosing.
In this screenful form of conducting relationships, I enjoy a power over the other person of which he himself is not really aware — since he is not aware of how much I wish to retain him in the space before me. And the power I have over him he has too over me, just as I am denied the same freedom in his space that he is denied in mine. He, too, therefore, will not risk himself; he appears on the screen only on condition of retaining that ultimate control himself. This is something I know about him that he knows that I know — and vice versa. There grows between us a reduced-risk encounter, in which each is aware that the other is fundamentally withheld, sovereign within his impregnable cyber-castle.
Read it through, substituting "Ricochet" for "Facebook." Any difference in the outcome of the argument? Is it valid to begin with?
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Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Very true, and important to talk about. I find that the critical factor is truthfulness, or the lack of it. We can pass ourselves off as almost anything we want to be in this medium, and it's much harder, if not impossible, to know if someone's lying. The cues and 'tells' you'd have in real life are missing.
What's worse is when people lie without knowing they're lying. Again, in real life you're able to see that.
Sep '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
It is less common but I'm sure we all know people in real life who are "always on message" or the phrase I prefer "in constant transmission with no reception". I find this particularly common among unsuccessful salesmen and all politicians. Social media makes it more common but it also allows us to communicate with vastly larger numbers of people. Genuine communication however only happens if both sides eschew the "off switch" I love the way Roger Scruton writes by the way. I find it idiosyncratic without loss of clarity which is rare for academics.
May '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
It's not fair if he doesn't also mention the advantages--the marvelous opportunities never before available--in connecting electronically.
But he has a point.
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Read it through, substituting "Ricochet" for "Facebook." Any difference in the outcome of the argument? Is it valid to begin with?
The whole art of good manners is about reducing the risk of social encounters through self-control, through withholding elements of ourselves out of consideration for others. Reduced-risk encounters are nothing new, then. They are as old as human society, most likely.
As for Ricochet, those who have been to the RicoSoirees remark with approval on how true members' online personas are to the in-person realities.
The fact that the members here often express the desire to meet in person -- and then carry through with that desire -- is probably significant.
Sep '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
What is described above is not much different than two independent farmers, 150 years ago, meeting at their common fence to discuss the local gossip of the day. Each shares news and opinions to the other. Each keeps the most intimate aspect of their thoughts to themselves. Each returns to their work when the conversation is over, to think about, or not, what the other has said.
Jul '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I believe engineers refer to this as "trade off."
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Neil Postman presciently wrote of this issue in Technopoly and Entertaining Ourselves To Death discussing the obsession with the "new" without considering its effects. Every technology has effects, some good, some bad and some indifferent. The question is how wisely do we appropriate the new technology and weigh its benefits and burdens?
There are similarities between the Facebook and Ricochet but I doubt many Ricochet contributors and members have the trouble distinguishing between this virtual world and the real world and don't degrade the definition of "friend" by considering Ricochet's other members as "friends" unless they are, in fact, friends. Regional Ricochet get-togethers is an excellent way for mere membership to develop into real community.
Ours is a fragmented society becoming ever more fragmented. "It is not good that man should be alone." I have been fortunate to live with multiple generations of my family surrounded by their ghosts and echoes. It is an excellent way to live.
As long as we recognize that technological communities are just and strive to create real relationships with benefits and burdens, technologies remain just tools to facilitate those real relationships.
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
By the way Claire, thanks for posting this link. The New Atlantis appears to be an interesting journal. I was not familiar with it.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Roger Scruton
"Human relations, and the self-image of the human being, have been profoundly affected by the Internet and by the ease with which images of other people can be summoned to the computer screen to become the objects of emotional attention."
I am sorry, but I do not accept the initial premise. This is evolutionary anthroplogy at it's best!. Human beigns have changed very little over time. Read the ancient liturature. I for one, reject the idea that my self image has been affected by the internet. Yes, I have chosen to expand my social network to include people I have never met by joining web based networks like Ricochet, but this has had limited impact on my relationships with my friends, family and community that exist in "real time". The idea of summoning someone else to the computer to become an object of emotional attention strikes me as pathological. That is not my motive and I doubt it works that way. Let's try it out...I am now summoning all the Ricochet editors to the computer right now...I want you to be the objects of my emotional attention...is it working?
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I'd say the issue is that our nature as humans is to veer or oscillate between inwardness and outwardness -- and that the style and substance of interaction made possible by the internet can exaggerate, but at the same time mute or suppress, in different ways, our inwardness and our outwardness.
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I wasn't either--I found that piece via Arts & Letters Daily, which is a consistently good source of interesting links.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
James Poulos, Ed.
I'd say the issue is that our nature as humans is to veer or oscillate between inwardness and outwardness -- and that the style and substance of interaction made possible by the internet can exaggerate, but at the same time mute or suppress, in different ways, our inwardness and our outwardness. · Oct 23 at 10:23am
By inward and outward I take it you mean who we believe we are and who we project ourselves to be or would like to be. Claire asked us to substitute Ricochet for Facebook and asked if the argument she was referring to was valid. The argument has to do with what you refer to as the inward and outward self, and also to risk. The risk we take when we reveal our inward selves to others.I do not think the internet changes that dynamic much. Some of us are good at wearing masks and others not. It takes less skill to do it on the internet,especially when we do so anonymously, but much of it comes down to how comfortable we are engaging with others as our selves rather than a persona.
Edited on Oct 23, 2010 at 1:20pmOct '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Thanks for posting the article. Good food for thought. I have found my internet relationships have enchanced my RL relationships and made me a better and more well-rounded person--in fact, more enjoyable to be around. :) So, I appreciate the contacts I have made through the years on the internet. There are a few internet relationships that make it long term. Most do not have staying power. It was refreshing for me to read the insights of this article. This is my first post here on Ricohet. And I enjoy what many of you have written.
I liked this quote from the article: "Justice is the ability to see the other as having a claim on you, as being a free subject just as you are, and as demanding your accountability. To acquire this virtue you must learn the habit of face-to-face encounters, in which you solicit the other’s consent and cooperation rather than imposing your will. The retreat behind the screen is a way of retaining control over the encounter...."
Thank you for sharing this article. Real life encounters sharpen what I learn here. Thank you, again.
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Welcome, Tora.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Welcome, Tora. · Oct 23 at 2:02pm
Ditto.
Jun '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I don't want to ruffle any feathers since I don't think it means all that much, but this is the first website where I've used my real name instead of a nickname. I don't think the tone, style, or content has altered here compared to whatever I've written with nicknames, so the end result did not change, However, I felt it to be a symbolic gesture for myself to let people know who I actually am instead of continuing to contribute anonymously. Now I have a more direct presence than I ever did before, and it feels different. Does that make sense? Again, I've got nothing against nicknames. It's just an explanation of how I decided to "out" myself here. Meanwhile, I continue to use nicknames elsewhere. Maybe it's just because Ricochet feels like a safe place. Or maybe I'm just stupid, who knows? I have no boss to fire me now anyway. :)
Edited on Oct 23, 2010 at 3:50pmJul '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
Dave Molinari:, However, I felt it to be a symbolic gesture for myself to let people know who I actually am instead of continuing to contribute anonymously. Now I have a more direct presence than I ever did before, and it feels different. Does that make sense? Oct 23 at 3:49pm
Edited on Oct 23 at 03:50 pm
I think it makes a great deal of sense, Dave.
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I just finished "Lion Eyes". I think I'm destined now for the rest of my life to hear the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth accompanied by whooshing and tinkling sounds. The story was so funny! I don't usually go for spy stories or romances, but yours I like.
You got me thinking...
Sure, it's probably easier for the internet to become a fantasy realm, disconnected from who we are otherwise. But there are many who treat their in-person relationships -- romances particularly -- as fantasies, as nothing more than the story they reveal to others, irrespective of whether that story is true. Or rather, as if their story is true simply because it's the story they choose to tell.
"The heart is deceitful above all -- and incurable." (Jeremiah 17:9)
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
I've never felt I've been conducting or in any way even having a relationship through Internet forums. I post because it's a kick; I see my name onscreen; and then the kick fades. I sometimes write with undue fervor, but I always give my weblink, which has my real name AND my P.O. box. Since no one has ever responded, I guess either they didn't get too exercised (I hope!) or they didn't have 44 cents. As with work, I take this just seriously enough to try to do it with polish and flair, and beyond that I will not go.
Actually, what Internet posting reminds me of is not any personal relationship but my failed interview with the Foreign Service in 1991. At one point they quizzed me on current events, specifically on what the U.S. should do about Amazonian deforestation, and I said: it isn't being deforested. I've been there. I sensed at once, as I ALWAYS sense on the Internet, what a solecism that was and is: one NEVER intrudes personal experience, no matter how germane. But there I go again!
Jul '10
Re: Ricochet and the Trend Toward Self-Alienation
The 'Rattlesnake's point about manners is well taken. Ricochet is like a workplace. There are people here interested in establishing a relationship beyond being an acquaintance. That's fine. We go a bit beyond the usual professional relationships because we talk about something rude: politics. We do it in a convenient medium.
Is it somehow too convenient? This, I think, is the question. Maybe so, but I don't trade this relationship for a real world one with my wife. It is the best way I can engage in political discussion without offending coworkers or anyone who happens to be within earshot. It is something I spend a brief amount of time doing in comparison with work and family.
Face-to-face relationships do require much more effort. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right people close by. Everyone needs a group that supports them. If being a part of this site helps someone find some peace of mind, cheers to them. I hope people are able to make face-to-face connections from Ricochet and become lifelong friends. Personally, I'm just looking to learn and share ideas.